Evidence of meeting #61 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transfer.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Glenn Campbell  Director, International Policy and Analysis Division , Department of Finance
Gilles Moreau  Director General, National Compensation, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Department of Public Safety
Jonathan Roy  Senior Policy Analyst, Social Policy, Health, Justice, Culture, Department of Finance
Daniel MacDonald  Chief, Federal-Provincial Relations Division, CHT/CST and Northern Policy, Department of Finance
John Davies  Director General, National Security Policy, Department of Public Safety
Darryl Hirsch  Senior Policy Analyst, Intelligence Policy and Coordination, Department of Public Safety
Nigel Harrison  Manager, Legislative and Parliamentary Affairs, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
David Gillis  Director General, Ecosystems and Oceans Science Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
David Lee  Director, Office of Legislative and Regulatory Modernization; Policy, Planning and International Affairs Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
Samuel Godefroy  Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
Alwyn Child  Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Annette Nicholson  Secretary and General Counsel, International Development Research Centre (IDRC)
Lenore Duff  Senior Director, Strategic Policy and Legislative Reform, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Dominique La Salle  Director General, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Nathalie Martel  Director, Old Age Security Policy, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Bruno Rodrigue  Chief, Social policy, Income Security, Department of Finance
Annette Vermaeten  Director, Task Force, Special Projects, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Eileen Boyd  Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel, Privy Council Office
Neil Bouwer  Vice-President, Policy and Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Lynn Tassé  Director, Canada Gazette, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Gerard Peets  Senior Director, Strategy and Planning Directorate, Department of Industry
Patricia Brady  Director, Investment, Insolvency, Competition and Corporate Policy Directorate, Department of Industry
Andy Lalonde  Manager, Preclearance, Canada Border Services Agency, Department of Public Safety
Lynn Hemmings  Senior Chief, Payments, Payments and Pensions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

9:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Mr. Marston.

There are about three minutes left in this round. Ms. Nash, go ahead.

9:10 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

I'm just curious. Can you provide us with a bit more detail on those changes to the Air Canada pension plan? Where was there found to be a regulatory gap, if you will, or a change needed in the regulation? What specifically prompted the need for the change in regulation?

9:10 p.m.

Senior Chief, Payments, Payments and Pensions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Lynn Hemmings

In the first instance, it was driven by Air Canada entering bankruptcy protection back in 2004. The regulations provided a funding schedule for making payments into their pension plan.

The second case was simply a funding schedule that was negotiated in conjunction with the unions and the planned sponsors, the retirees, to adopt a funding schedule for the pension plan. They signed an MOU, and subsequently the government put in place the regulations to effect that funding schedule.

9:15 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

So these were changes that were in some shape or form negotiated and presumably under the guidance of OSFI, in terms of making, essentially, amendments to the pension plan. It would have been under the jurisdiction of OSFI, I assume.

9:15 p.m.

Senior Chief, Payments, Payments and Pensions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Lynn Hemmings

OSFI has authority over federally regulated pension plans such as Air Canada, and it is their job to ensure compliance with regulations made under the PBSA.

9:15 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

So essentially there was no regulatory provision for the changes that were made at that time, to avoid bankruptcy or whatever, but because they had been negotiated there was a regulation required to permit what had been done. Is that correct? Am I understanding you?

9:15 p.m.

Senior Chief, Payments, Payments and Pensions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Lynn Hemmings

There are funding rules under the PBSA and the regulations that must be followed. If exceptions are to be made to those funding regulations, then a special regulation has to be introduced to set out what the funding schedule will be, and that was what was applied in the case of Air Canada.

9:15 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

I understand. Thank you.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Ms. Nash.

I'm going to go to Ms. Glover and then I'll come back.

Ms. Glover.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Hemmings, do you have a copy of the letter that was sent?

9:15 p.m.

Senior Chief, Payments, Payments and Pensions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Lynn Hemmings

I do not. I can certainly submit one to the committee. It is in French.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

That would be much appreciated.

Who authored the letter?

9:15 p.m.

Senior Chief, Payments, Payments and Pensions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Lynn Hemmings

I don't have the name off the top of my head.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

I believe it may have been—

9:15 p.m.

Senior Chief, Payments, Payments and Pensions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Lynn Hemmings

Mr. Rousseau comes to mind.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

Mr. Rousseau and Madame Francine.... What's her name? She's from the NDP, in fact. Francine...?

9:15 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Are you talking about Francine Raynault?

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

No. Bellavance?

In any event, if you could table the letter, I believe it was opposition members who actually wrote the letter. So further information could be obtained from their own side, if they need further details, but I'd appreciate it.

Thank you.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Ms. Glover.

There are four minutes left, Mr. Hoback, if you want to take the time.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Colleagues, I think I can help you out here. I sat on the scrutiny of regulations committee, so I know how the process works. What happens is the legal.... It brings into a group of all parties made up of both the Senate and the House of Commons, and it will highlight issues that may or may not be a problem. It would make suggestions to have the department remedy a situation so that it would not be a problem.

So in this case, I would assume, it may or may not have been a problem, but they came back to the department and said change it so it's not a problem, guaranteed. So it's mainly housekeeping. It would have been internal legal, and then it would have been all parties that would have vetted it before we got back to this stage here.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you. That's very helpful.

Mr. Brison, did you have a point?

9:15 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Is there any federal fiscal impact of the proposed change?

9:15 p.m.

Senior Chief, Payments, Payments and Pensions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

9:15 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Okay. Thank you.

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay. Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. Nash, then, please.