Evidence of meeting #62 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karen Swol  Director, Program Management, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Dean Beyea  Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Olivier Nicoloff  Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Colleen Barnes  Executive Director, Domestic Policy Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Nancy Leigh  Manager, Governance Secretariat, Canada School of Public Service
Jane Pearse  Director, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Suzanne Brisebois  Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada, Public Safety Canada
Louise Laflamme  Chief, Marine Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Department of Transport
Lenore Duff  Senior Director, Strategic Policy and Legislative Reform, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Lawrence Hanson  Director General, Strategic Policy Directorate, Department of the Environment
Pamela Miller  Director General, Telecommunications Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Allan MacGillivray  Special Advisor to the Director General, Telecommunications Policy, Department of Industry
Alwyn Child  Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Mireille Laroche  Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Mark Hodgson  Senior Policy Analyst, Labour Markets, Employment and Learning, Department of Finance
Patrick Halley  Chief, Tariffs and Market Acess, International Trade and Finance, Department of Finance
Vivian Krause  As an Individual
Mark Blumberg  Lawyer and Partner, Blumberg Segal LLP
Dan Kelly  Senior Vice-President, Legislative Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Dennis Howlett  Coordinator, Canadians for Tax Fairness
Jamie Ellerton  Executive Director, EthicalOil.org
Blair Rutter  Grain Growers of Canada
Marcel Lauzière  President and Chief Executive Officer, Imagine Canada
Tom King  Co-Chair, Finance and Taxation Committee, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
Sandra Harder  Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Cam Carruthers  Director, Program Integrity Division, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada
David Manicom  Immigration Program Manager (New Delhi), Area Director (South Asia), Department of Citizenship and Immigration

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

And if banking has a widely held rule, why would we not use.... Why use this instead of moving to that model?

5:50 p.m.

Special Advisor to the Director General, Telecommunications Policy, Department of Industry

Allan MacGillivray

I guess all we can say is that it's not one of the options that all of the expert panels that we were discussing before offered to the government. The option that the government has chosen to proceed on is this one here, which was recommended by two expert panels with which it consulted last year.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay. I don't know if we qualified as an expert panel in the industry committee back in 2003, but it was certainly our recommendation that it be done for the entire sector.

I appreciate your responses.

Mr. Jean.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

I just wanted to confirm this along the lines of Mr. Brison and what he was saying earlier. We do have high fees in this industry compared to other countries in the world—at least that's what I've recognized and seen—so this rule should bring about more choices for consumers and ultimately a lower price overall.

5:50 p.m.

Director General, Telecommunications Policy Branch, Department of Industry

Pamela Miller

We have seen those benefits already, and since we've had new entrants into the market since the government action to set aside spectrum, we have seen improvements, better pricing, and better service plans. However, these companies are reaching the limits of what they can do under the existing rules, so they won't be able to grow. They won't be able to continue their success and to have that consumer choice unless these rules are changed.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

But it's really a great news story for consumers.

5:50 p.m.

Director General, Telecommunications Policy Branch, Department of Industry

Pamela Miller

Yes, it is.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Thank you very much.

5:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Mr. Jean.

I want to thank you both for being with us here today and for responding to our questions on this section.

We will move to the next division, please, which is division 42.

We're dealing with the Employment Equity Act. We have Mr. Child with us.

Please give us an overview of this section.

5:55 p.m.

Alwyn Child Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Thank you, Chair.

The proposal in division 42 is to repeal subsection 42(2) of the Employment Equity Act, which currently provides that the minister shall ensure that the requirements under the federal contractors program are equivalent to the requirements under the Employment Equity Act. The proposed new subsection removes the equivalency requirement, so that it provides for a greater flexibility in the administration of the federal contractors program, which is the Treasury Board contractors program.

Just by way of a bit more background, the Employment Equity Act applies to the federal private sector and the federal public service itself. The federal contractors program applies primarily to provincially regulated employers that employ 100 or more employees. So the federal contractors program essentially gets at those who are not governed by the Employment Equity Act federally.

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you very much for that overview.

I have Ms. Nash first, please.

5:55 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Thank you, and welcome back to the finance committee.

The federal contractors provisions under the Employment Equity Act have meant that significant employers who are federal contractors have had to reflect the goals of the Employment Equity Act in terms of hiring disadvantaged groups, such as people with disabilities, women, first nations, people of colour. The Employment Equity Act itself came from a human rights complaint that found there was discrimination in employment and these designated groups were under-represented.

The act was designed not only to encourage federal jurisdiction employers but those major contractors to do a better job in overcoming systemic barriers to employment.

Why would we want to take a step backwards? Are we saying to these designated groups that somehow their human rights are not as important as they were when Judge Rosalie Abella made her landmark human rights decision?

5:55 p.m.

Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Alwyn Child

The change does not affect the Employment Equity Act at all. The only thing it affects is the federal contractors program. The federal contractors program, as I said earlier, applies only to provincially regulated employers who would be seeking a contract with the federal government.

As it's written now, the minister must ensure that all of the requirements in the Employment Equity Act are complied with by those seeking a contract with the federal government. It does not remove it. What it does is remove the requirement from the federal contractors program, which can still be met through the contractual arrangement with the employer who gets the contract with the federal government.

5:55 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Just to be clear, if I'm a major aircraft manufacturer and I'm going to be selling my aircraft to the federal government, under the current provisions I have to have an employment equity plan that seeks to hire people from these designated groups.

5:55 p.m.

Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Alwyn Child

That will continue because the Employment Equity Act applies to all federally regulated employers.

5:55 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

If I'm a provincially regulated company but I'm selling a number of aircraft to the federal government, and so I have a federal contract, my company would normally be under provincial jurisdiction. But because I have a federal contract, in the past, my business has come under these provisions of the Employment Equity Act. Why would we abandon that?

5:55 p.m.

Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Alwyn Child

It's not being abandoned. Those requirements can still be inserted.

5:55 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

We're not making them mandatory.

5:55 p.m.

Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Alwyn Child

That's right. That's the change.

5:55 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

In society we're seeing growing inequality, especially amongst, for example, people of colour, new immigrants. What kind of message do you think it sends to them if we step back on something as basic as human rights through this employment equity provision?

6 p.m.

Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Alwyn Child

I don't know that there is a step back from it. I understand the differences: one is a mandatory requirement and the other, the proposed change, would allow flexibility. Under the federal contractors program, what's being proposed is, number one, to increase the number. As it is right now, it only applies to visible minorities and aboriginal persons.

6 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

There are four designated groups.

6 p.m.

Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Alwyn Child

The federal contractors program did not include all four. It only included two.

6 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

It was my understanding it included all four.

6 p.m.

Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Alwyn Child

That's not the federal contractors program. The Employment Equity Act includes four. The federal contractors program always only applied to two, so it would now include women and persons with disabilities.

It will also allow for changes in the threshold limit. The red tape commission heard from employers that the requirements under the Employment Equity Act were onerous.