Evidence of meeting #62 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karen Swol  Director, Program Management, Rail Safety, Department of Transport
Dean Beyea  Director, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Olivier Nicoloff  Director, Democracy, Commonwealth and Francophonie Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Colleen Barnes  Executive Director, Domestic Policy Directorate, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Nancy Leigh  Manager, Governance Secretariat, Canada School of Public Service
Jane Pearse  Director, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Suzanne Brisebois  Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada, Public Safety Canada
Louise Laflamme  Chief, Marine Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Department of Transport
Lenore Duff  Senior Director, Strategic Policy and Legislative Reform, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Lawrence Hanson  Director General, Strategic Policy Directorate, Department of the Environment
Pamela Miller  Director General, Telecommunications Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Allan MacGillivray  Special Advisor to the Director General, Telecommunications Policy, Department of Industry
Alwyn Child  Director General, Program Development and Guidance Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Mireille Laroche  Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Mark Hodgson  Senior Policy Analyst, Labour Markets, Employment and Learning, Department of Finance
Patrick Halley  Chief, Tariffs and Market Acess, International Trade and Finance, Department of Finance
Vivian Krause  As an Individual
Mark Blumberg  Lawyer and Partner, Blumberg Segal LLP
Dan Kelly  Senior Vice-President, Legislative Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Dennis Howlett  Coordinator, Canadians for Tax Fairness
Jamie Ellerton  Executive Director, EthicalOil.org
Blair Rutter  Grain Growers of Canada
Marcel Lauzière  President and Chief Executive Officer, Imagine Canada
Tom King  Co-Chair, Finance and Taxation Committee, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
Sandra Harder  Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Cam Carruthers  Director, Program Integrity Division, Human Resources and Skills Development Canada
David Manicom  Immigration Program Manager (New Delhi), Area Director (South Asia), Department of Citizenship and Immigration

8:20 p.m.

Executive Director, EthicalOil.org

Jamie Ellerton

I'm not going to speak to a hypothetical, Mr. Brison, but I would encourage Canadians to follow the law. If there's any specific information on any groups that are violating the law, that should be referred to the proper authorities. In this case it sounds as if it would be the Canada Revenue Agency.

8:20 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Time goes so quickly.

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

You have 30 seconds for your question.

8:20 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Mr. Kelly, I've been hearing from members, particularly in the tourist industry and also in the agriculture industry. I've been hearing from people like David Ganong. Ganong's chocolate is a significant employer in St. Stephen, New Brunswick. I've also talked to people who are your members and who have strong concerns about the proposed changes to EI, and who are saying that seasonal workers are essential to their business models.

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Question....

8:20 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Are you hearing from some of those people?

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, brief response, Mr. Kelly.

8:20 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Legislative Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business

Dan Kelly

Yes, Mr. Brison, we have heard from some of our members in seasonal industries. In fact, the data I've provided does show that about a third of our members are in seasonal industries themselves; it's higher in Atlantic Canada than elsewhere.

We've heard some concern from some of our members about the changes. The feedback we've had overall, and it's been brief in the last few days, has been general support. Proof is always in the implementation. But you're quite right, there are some concerns being raised.

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

I would encourage members to ask questions that leave the witnesses enough time to answer, please.

We'll go to Ms. McLeod.

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will share my time with Mr. Adler.

First, I think there's been a lot of talk about charities, and I want to say right upfront that charities play an incredibly important role in our society. Canadians donate very generously to charities, and the rules are basically the same. I think what we have is a rule that talks about 10%, and that if you really are wanting to get into more of a political role, you create, perhaps, a different structure in which to do your advocacy role.

I'm not hearing anyone really disagreeing with that particular premise. I think what I'd like to do is.... Maybe Ms. Krause has had an opportunity to hear from some of the other witnesses. From your research it sounded like there were donations to charitable organizations that focused in on market suppression. Could you talk, from your research, about how you felt that this 10% rule was being violated?

8:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Actually, I have never really raised concern about the political activity of non-profits. My initial concern was that charities are getting involved in marketing campaigns. The problem is that we need activists. Activists play an important role. Sometimes they jolt us out of our inertia and our apathy, and we need them to keep government and industry on their toes. But we need activists to play the role of an honest broker. Once you're involved in a marketing campaign, then you have to stick to the message, you have to sing from the song sheet.

I think across the board all industries need someone keeping an eye on them, and that includes the solar and the wind industry in the energy sector, for example. I'm concerned when we all of a sudden find out our environmental activists, who we count on to play the role of the honest broker, are participating in the Rockefeller Brothers tar sands campaign. How can they do that at the same time they're being an honest broker?

My hope, really, is that we do have activists who are independent, fiercely autonomous, and not beholden to any industry, or any foundation, or anybody who has an agenda—that they truly are independent. That was my concern. It's simply that I don't like to see activism funded as a tactic of marketing.

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Thank you.

There are 85,000 charities in Canada. I think it's reasonable to have some resources in this budget to support education, because I think what we're hearing here are concerns, actually, from everyone regardless of their perspective. So CRA impartially, whether it's, I don't know.... I could use all sorts of examples. It doesn't matter what the organization is. CRA is responsible if Canadians are concerned. They should have the ability and some resources, first of all, to comfort charities, to provide the education, and also to provide some support.

With that, maybe I'll turn it over to Mr. Adler.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

You have about a minute.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Thank you, Chair, that's very generous of you.

Thank you all for being here this evening.

Mr. Howlett, I really enjoyed your rendition of the Regina Manifesto, and I noticed across the aisle that Mr. Marston was waxing nostalgic over that as he was there for the drafting of it.

8:25 p.m.

A voice

Oh, oh.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

I'd like to begin with Mr. Kelly. How many numbers do you have in CFIB?

8:25 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Legislative Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business

Dan Kelly

We have 109,000.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Of those 109,000, how many jobs are created across the country?

8:25 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Legislative Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business

Dan Kelly

I believe the number of staff people that our members represent is around two million.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

What do you think those 109,000 members would say to a government that wants to increase EI premiums or OAS payments? Would they be in favour of that?

8:25 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Legislative Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business

Dan Kelly

No. In fact, we were fairly active in opposing your government's plans to increase employment insurance premiums. We had a “stop the tax grab” campaign targeted at the Conservative Party and the Conservative government on that very measure.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Yes, and we listened to the Canadian people and Canadian businesses and responded adequately to that.

8:25 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

So you're from an organization where the rubber hits the road.

8:25 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Legislative Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business