Finance Committee on May 31st, 2012

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I don't.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You must be from Fort McMurray. Are you from Fort McMurray, Mr. Mai?

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

No.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I will tell you that I have lived in Fort McMurray for 47 years. We have the lowest doctor-to-patient ratio in the OECD. Do you know that? I haven't had a family doctor for 20 years. When I need to see a doctor, I come to Ottawa. Why? Because I can see a doctor here.

Do you realize that Bill C-38, for the first time in our history, allows us to have the opportunity to fast-track a doctor who is going to go to a rural community? Do any of you realize that?

Could you comment on that, Mr. Lee?

[Prof. Ian Lee]

That's the kind of thing I am talking about when I say we need to identify gaps, needs, or deficiencies in Canada. Then we use public policy to address those needs. I can't see any other function of the immigration policy. It's not to “save the world”. The United Nations does that. Our job is to look after the people in our country.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Some people would argue with your comment in relation to the United Nations saving the world, especially as of late, with some of the recent appointments.

Has anybody lined up for an hour at Tim Hortons to get a coffee? Have any of the witnesses here? I have in Fort McMurray, in northern Alberta. I have lined up there, because I can't get employees. I closed down a Quiznos—the busiest Quiznos on the planet—because I couldn't get enough employees. I closed it down.

This is the problem with the immigration system. We do not have enough people to work.

I had other things to comment about, but you can tell I feel pretty strongly about these particular issues.

How appropriate is it for Canada and western governments to adjust their old age pension? I want to just deal with that very briefly. How appropriate is it? The OECD has identified that as being an issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Who would you like to respond?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Lee.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Mr. Lee, go ahead briefly, please.

[Prof. Ian Lee]

I think it's extremely appropriate, actually. I actually argued in an op-ed that it should go to 70—not 67—with a provision for those who are in very physically challenging jobs or an exception clause that will allow that.

More and more of us are in services. Even though the figure quoted says that 15% are in manufacturing, that's a very misleading figure. Most of the people in manufacturing are not on the assembly line. They are in finance, marketing, and dealer relations. If you had the true figure for services today, it's upwards of 90% or 95%.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Jean.

Mr. Mai, you have the floor.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Lee, yesterday we heard from the other side that whether or not we should believe in a witness depends on whether or not he was a candidate.

Were you a candidate for the Conservative Party in 1993?

[Prof. Ian Lee]

I was a candidate once in my life, in the 1993 election in Ottawa Centre against the late Marion Dewar, former mayor of Ottawa, and Mac Harb.

I lost decisively and I did not challenge the results.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Are you currently a member of the Conservative Party?

[Prof. Ian Lee]

I am not a member, nor do I contribute to any political party.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Okay.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

In fairness, it was the Progressive Conservatives.

[Prof. Ian Lee]

That was the Progressive Conservative Party, that's right.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

You also said that you believed in what the OECD said. The OECD has concluded that “Canada does not face major challenges of financial sustainability with its public pension schemes”, and that there's “no pressing financial or fiscal need to increase pension ages in the foreseeable future”. That's what the OECD has said.

To go back to what Ms. McLeod said regarding the previous budget, I find it a bit ironic that we're looking at what was done before, which I don't think we agree with, in terms of having an omnibus bill. I would also remind the party that they were a minority government then. Right now you are a majority government, so you don't have to look at what was done before in terms of having an omnibus bill.

One of the problems we have now is that we have a bill that deals with 60 or 70 other laws, and we have so many issues in this bill.

Ms. Dubois, I would like to ask you a question about young people. We know the youth unemployment rate is nearly double. How is this bill going to make it more difficult for young people to access jobs?

[Roxanne Dubois]

There are actually several things that have to be considered. Most importantly, there are not enough resources in education. To help the economy, we have to make sure that people are well-educated and have the skills and knowledge they need to participate in the Canadian economy.

In terms of resources, there is also training for people who are unemployed and who could be given new training so they have new job opportunities. That is something to add.

As well, in the public service, young people are at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to seniority, so they are also going to feel the effects of reductions in the public service.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Fried, earlier Mr. Adler was attacking you regarding Afghanistan. I'll give you a few seconds to respond to that, because I saw that you had wanted to respond regarding the intervention in Afghanistan or what we were doing in terms of Foreign Affairs.

[Mark Fried]

I was simply saying that Canada....

I was not talking about Afghanistan. Canada has done some good work there. Canada's aid program is quite effective around the world. We'd like to see Canada doing more of that and pulling its weight. Among all donor countries, Canada is currently towards the bottom of the list of donor countries as a portion of our economy. We hope that Canada will increase that rather than cut it.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

It does have an effect on how Canada is perceived overseas.

Mr. Waldman, I think we were talking about 280,000 people being affected in terms of immigration and in terms of the backlog being cancelled. Can you tell us about the fees people have to pay, or in terms of cost for the immigrant who wants to come here? How much does it cost for them? The government has said they will reimburse the fees. Are there other costs to them?

[Lorne Waldman]

I read you the story of this woman who contacted me. There are hundreds of people like that. That's why we went to court, because we want to try to protect their rights against what we think are the immoral actions of this government.

In terms of your specific question of the costs, there are the direct costs of the application fees. Then there is the cost of the English language test that most of them took. There is the cost of travelling to get the documentation. Then there are the other costs. In countries like China, when you tell them you're emigrating, you lose your opportunity for advancement. One person lost his job and it cost him several hundred thousand dollars of income.