Evidence of meeting #78 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alicia Milner  President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance
Henry Van Ankum  Chair, Grain Farmers of Ontario
Shannon Bittman  Vice-President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Tom King  Co-Chair, Finance and Taxation Committee, Associate Partner, Tax, KPMG LLP, Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada
Peter Bleyer  Senior Advisor, Policy and Communications, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Bruce MacDonald  President, Chief Executive Officer, Big Brothers Big Sisters of Canada
Michael Atkinson  President, Canadian Construction Association
Barb Mildon  President, Canadian Nurses Association
Robert Peterson  Staff Lawyer, Ecojustice Canada
Magali Delomier  Director General, Fédération de la relève agricole du Québec

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Mr. Adler.

We'll go to Ms. Nash, please.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Thank you very much.

Hello to all the witnesses. Thank you for being here.

Ms. Milner, I do have to ask you a question. I appreciate your presentation. We have a sizable bus industry here in Canada—bus manufacturing—and the truck industry, but we've lost quite a bit of it. Could you tell me if there is any work going on with the domestic bus industry in terms of this transition? Also, what does that mean in terms of innovation and job creation here in Canada?

I think what you're talking about is interesting technology. I'm especially interested in the renewable aspect of it, although I appreciate that it's still a work in progress. I'm interested in what the impact is on the creation of value-added jobs here.

4:15 p.m.

President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance

Alicia Milner

Right now in Canada we have New Flyer in Winnipeg, of course, Motor Coach Industries, and Nova Bus in Quebec. Of those three, two already offer a natural gas product. For New Flyer, that is a quarter of their sales to the U.S., so it is substantial.

Now, in Canada it has been tougher, because we invented the technology back in the eighties in Hamilton, and we did it there because the air quality was poor—

4:15 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

4:15 p.m.

President, Canadian Natural Gas Vehicle Alliance

Alicia Milner

That said, we have the early adopters in our midst, and some of those same people are still working in transit. What we really have to see in transit in Canada to pull that demand is, first, a transit move, and we think Calgary will be the one there.

That said, even with Calgary, now that they've expressed strong interest, we see Nova Bus in Quebec.... They're the last one not to offer natural gas and they are now bringing forward a natural gas prototype. Again, there's nothing like the customer on the ground asking for it to stimulate that local production.

I will give you another example. Labrie Environmental is in Saint-Nicolas, Quebec. They make bodies for garbage trucks. They too have quite a good business—to primarily California and Texas—selling the natural gas trucks. They've now made their first sales in Canada. They're quite excited about the potential for the Canadian market. Offhand, I think their employment is at about 250 or 300 people. But absolutely: having this product and expanding their product line can help with local employment.

We see that. I think that earlier Dave mentioned Westport and Cummins Westport out of Vancouver. Westport alone has added about 250 people in the last 18 months just in Canada and another 300 internationally. They sell the heavy engine for the highway tractors. It has very much been a generator of jobs at the local level.

We see, as you said, that we've lost a lot of our capacity, unfortunately, to assemble heavy trucks. But can we supply components? Absolutely: I think we're well positioned in that space as well.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

That's a good point. Thank you very much.

Ms. Bittman, I notice that in your filling out of the questions for the finance committee's work, you have talked about the National Research Council and a shift in the focus of investment at the NRC. I'm wondering if you could talk a bit about that.

I'm always concerned about having balance in our research. I think it's important to work with the private sector and to foster innovation, but I also think it's very important to invest in basic research. It's just part of good public policy. Can you comment on that, please?

4:15 p.m.

Vice-President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada

Shannon Bittman

I'm actually a last-minute replacement for President Corbett of the institute. With the indulgence of everyone here, I would prefer that Peter Bleyer, a policy adviser at the institute, take that question.

October 17th, 2012 / 4:15 p.m.

Peter Bleyer Senior Advisor, Policy and Communications, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada

Thank you, Shannon.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

There's about one minute remaining.

4:15 p.m.

Senior Advisor, Policy and Communications, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada

Peter Bleyer

Our concern is that currently there's a lot of confusion at the NRC. There has been a trend towards downgrading basic research, certainly, but at the same time it's more a question of not being clear on what is actually going on.

With the restructuring, we have two processes that are criss-crossing. We have the deficit reduction action plan, which is having an impact, and at the same time we have reorganization that's being driven towards a new model. It's very unclear to a lot of our members there where this is actually going.

There are a lot of concerns. In many cases, they're feeling like the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater. There's a lot of uncertainty. Also, there's this feeling that experts are not actually being consulted as part of the process, which actually applies not just to the NRC but to most other science-based departments, really, where changes are taking place—for example, among the veterinarians at CFIA.

This concern is not only with what the change is, but with the fact that the very people who have the scientific knowledge and expertise have not been consulted as part of the process in arriving at change, which drives a lot of concern, often legitimate, but not always, necessarily.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Nash.

We'll go to Mr. Hoback, please.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to all of you for being here this afternoon. It's great to see you here.

Unfortunately, I only get five minutes to ask questions, so I'm going to stick to one constituent.

I'm going to talk with you, Mr. Van Ankum, a grain farmer from Ontario. I'm a grain farmer from Saskatchewan. One thing I know about farmers is that if you say you're a farmer, you have a best friend, anywhere in the world—it doesn't matter where you are.

You made some really interesting points in your opening comments, which I found to be something we should be listening to and talking about, for sure.

I noted your disappointment in AgriStability and AgriInvest and the changes there. I will highlight the fact that with AgriInvest now, farmers can actually invest more in their accounts on a yearly basis, so even though it has gone from 1.5% to 1%, they can actually put more in and have it matching. I think that's a positive.

I think we also have to highlight the fact that AgriStability is a joint program with the provinces, so any changes to that program wouldn't have been only the federal government's. Actually, it was eight provinces in conjunction making the recommendations for the changes. I think it came down to the fact that we've had such great years in the grain sector across Canada, and the margins these guys have now are so high that if there were ever a trigger of a huge payment, we'd be paying farmers who would be still making money, more money on top of that. I think taxpayers would have trouble with that. I think that justifies some of the changes.

One thing happening with those changes is that it's freeing up cash to go into the research side of things. I know that in Ontario you talked about the winter wheat production and the cereal production. Could you highlight what you'd like to see as far as moving forward goes with research in the winter wheat and the grain sector, what you'd like to see that might be something we could support or help you with?

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Grain Farmers of Ontario

Henry Van Ankum

Thank you for the question.

We are excited about the opportunities in the freeing up of those dollars for some strategic investments in the research area. I think it's important to understand that one of the keys for a farmer to maximize his productivity and competitiveness is having access to first-class, high-yielding varieties to grow, varieties that are adapted to his region, to his climate. Time and again, we've seen that plant-breeding efforts to develop a plant as complex as wheat that are not conducted in the region the variety is intended for have not proven very fruitful over the years.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

So that would be one of your priorities: if you're looking at research for Ontario farmers, you'd like to see that as one of the priorities for that region.

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Grain Farmers of Ontario

Henry Van Ankum

Very much so: a dedicated plant-breeder position, a wheat breeder, to develop wheat varieties for our Ontario climate, to help support our domestic milling industry also.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Now, on the trade side, I know that the agriculture minister has been very involved around the world on the beef side promoting trade, and on the grain side. I also know that the CFIA has been very helpful when it comes to the canola sector and the bean sector in dealing with non-tariff trade barriers when we see barriers going up in different markets around the world. How important is international trade to you guys? Is there any advice you would give us on that as we move forward?

4:20 p.m.

Chair, Grain Farmers of Ontario

Henry Van Ankum

Certainly, we are very appreciative of the minister's efforts to improve market access around the globe. Improving market access helps increase demand for the products we have become so good at producing here in Canada. That's an important step.

Specifically to the members that I represent, soybean exports are a large factor for us. We export well over 40% of our Ontario soybeans. We export them to some very high-value markets with a food-grade type of soybean to Japan and other Pacific Rim countries. Continuing to gain that access certainly helps our competitiveness.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

I think that's the same thing you'll hear from producers right across Canada: Canada's an exporting nation when it comes to agricultural goods and we need market access. It doesn't matter which grain group or farm organization that comes forward—they all say the same thing.

You also talked about program equities between provinces. I notice that this is an issue that has come up in the agriculture committee, which I also sit on. It's really hard for us on the federal side to address that, because different provincial governments have different priorities when it comes to the agriculture sector. For example, the Ontario government may not view the agriculture sector in the same light as the Quebec government—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Could you comment on that and how we should maybe try to...? Is there something federally we can do about that?

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Very briefly, sir.

4:25 p.m.

Chair, Grain Farmers of Ontario

Henry Van Ankum

Certainly.

Very specifically to this issue of winter wheat breeding, what we find is that Agriculture Canada carries seven full-time positions in developing varieties for western Canada, whereas at this time we're looking at one position in eastern Canada on the chopping block. With the uniqueness of the growing conditions within this vast country of ours, that's the kind of equity we're referring to—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

4:25 p.m.

Chair, Grain Farmers of Ontario

Henry Van Ankum

—a balance of investment.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Mr. Hoback.

We'll go to Mr. Marston, please.