Evidence of meeting #92 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Christopher Smillie  Senior Advisor, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO
Scott McAlpine  President, Douglas College, and Board Member, Canadian Bureau for International Education
Karen Cohen  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Psychological Association
Steven Liss  Vice-Principal of Research, Queen's University, Council of Ontario Universities
Richard Phillips  Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada
John Lounds  President and Chief Executive Officer, Nature Conservancy of Canada
Rachel Gouin  Manager, Research and Public Policy, Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada
Gordon McBean  Chairman, Board of Directors, Canadian Climate Forum
Alice Aiken  Director, Canadian Institute for Military and Veteran Health Research
Joyce Reynolds  Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association
Diane Brisebois  President and Chief Executive Officer, Retail Council of Canada

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Could we have a brief response, please?

4:15 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Nature Conservancy of Canada

John Lounds

Okay.

No, we haven't been looking at that. That's not something our group has particular expertise in. We focus on the biodiversity conservation question. Many more regional land trusts have been established that are looking at agricultural land conservation.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

So NACP would not apply to—

4:15 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Nature Conservancy of Canada

John Lounds

No, not to this point in time.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Mr. Brison.

We'll go to Mr. Preston, please.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Rajotte. It's great to be here today.

I'm going to go back to the Nature Conservancy too and maybe help with some of the answers Mr. Brison was looking for.

Again, thank you for your opening statement, and thank you for the work you do. You do a great job protecting some of the ecologically sensitive lands in Canada. More so, thank you for page 3 in your brochure. It's fantastic. We'll let others look that one up.

I understand the Nature Conservancy partners with land trusts for the most part in order to acquire land from land owners. Those land trusts leverage matching federal funds in order to be able to do that. The Canadian Land Trust Alliance is asking for a change in the carry forward provision—an increase to 10 years from 5 years on the carry forward provision for that.

First of all, how important is the carry forward provision for land trusts in order to be able to acquire this type of land?

4:15 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Nature Conservancy of Canada

John Lounds

You're speaking about the carry forward in terms of how long you can utilize an ecogift for your individual tax?

We haven't found it to be necessarily a major problem. It would be helpful if you were able to do that, obviously, because a lot of the folks we run into often—land rich, cash poor—more often than not can benefit from some more innovative ways of looking at how we treat their particular tax situation. What we're able to bring to the table is kind of like a P3 conservation. That's what we're doing. We're just trying to figure out the proper investment of public dollars versus private dollars versus what the land owners themselves may contribute to the equation.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

You bring forward that P3 piece, but you leverage the federal dollars in all of these things with private dollars and land trust dollars coming forward to help that. How important is it to encourage the awareness of a credit like that in order to generate, as you mentioned, the land rich, cash poor kind of situation?

4:15 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Nature Conservancy of Canada

John Lounds

Both the dollars and the credits available are very important to why people participate in a program like this. If you think about land and land conservation, really there are private benefits that are being received from the land. There are also public benefits that are being received from the land. That's why we believe at the Nature Conservancy that we have to figure out how we can all work on it.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Any idea what the cost difference would be between a 5-year and a 10-year...?

4:20 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Nature Conservancy of Canada

John Lounds

I haven't looked at it. Sorry.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

In your submission, it says you're proud of your history of leveraging private sector investment to protect Canada's natural spaces and to promote conservation. We already talked about how much federal dollars are truly leveraged in doing that.

You're really good at this. You're actually quite good from the land trust point of view—

4:20 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Nature Conservancy of Canada

John Lounds

Thank you.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Preston Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

—in convincing the private sector to get involved in setting aside ecologically sensitive lands. Your group helps organize that. You're quite successful at doing it.

Do you have any thoughts for some of the other sectors on how they could also be doing some of this leveraging? Mr. Smillie mentioned the leveraging of private-public partnerships. You're really quite good at it as an organization, convincing people to do it.

4:20 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Nature Conservancy of Canada

John Lounds

Part of it is not just convincing people to do it. What we have found is that if you scratch people just a little bit...you'll find there are a lot of people who are actually quite keen about conservation underneath all the other things they do. What we've been finding over the past decade or so is that there are more and more folks who have become interested in not only saying that they're interested in conservation, but actually putting their money where their mouth is. Having ways to incent them to do that has basically changed how we're able to make that happen.

I'm not an expert on that, but it may be something to look at in terms of how other sectors may be able to drive forward what I'd consider to be good public policy.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Preston.

Mr. Caron, you have the floor for five minutes.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for joining us today. My questions are mostly for Mr. Phillips.

Mr. Phillips, in most areas of agriculture—including, I assume, the grain sector—family farms are competing with large integrators. Could you tell me what the current situation is for Canadian family grain farms, or what may fit in that definition?

4:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada

Richard Phillips

I believe that over 90% of all farms in Canada are still controlled by families, like my family and my father's family. I think only 5% or 10% would be considered corporate-controlled. When people say corporate farms, sometimes they.... My farm is not large, but it's still a corporation, just because it's easier to give my wife and each of my four sons some shares.

So just because farms are corporate, it doesn't mean they're what some people would call corporate farms.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you.

I think the distinction is significant because small farms often have to incorporate themselves. However, I would like to know whether large integrators are currently a threat to family farms in the grain industry.

4:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada

Richard Phillips

I don't think so. Farms are getting larger in western Canada. Part of that is just the technology and the machinery we have available. One farmer on a tractor today can farm far more acreage than they used to. I think part of it is just a natural evolution.

When I look around my hometown, there are fewer farmers, but the people who are there are actually better farmers in many ways. I went through university, but the young people coming after me today are smarter, faster, and brighter than I was at that age.

So I think some of it is just a natural progression. They're capable of farming more land.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you.

You mentioned that Canadian farmers are aging. Eventually, the transfer issue will come into play. There are difficulties and obstacles involved in transferring family-owned farms in a number of agricultural sectors. The same is probably true of grain farms. Could you identify those obstacles for us? Do you have any solutions or suggestions for overcoming them?

4:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada

Richard Phillips

The best way to get young people to want to farm is to make a lot of money. Right now, I'll be frank, we are seeing a lot of young people wanting to come back and take over the family farm because it's profitable.

Something you might want to consider is the capital gains exemption. If a farmer retires from farming he gets...is it half a million or three-quarters of a million? I can't remember. There's a number in there. If my father sells his farm, he can save some tax-free...but it's not actually tied to selling it to your own family.

You may want to look at whether to have an additional exemption if you sold your farm, so that you can transfer your assets to your children without having to pay a lot of income tax. In theory, then you could transfer it at a lower value to give them a better start. Something like that I think would be very worthwhile looking at.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

The previous Bill C-38 included a provision—which was adopted—intended to privatize the seed inspection process. A number of farmers in my riding are worried because this could compromise the credibility of inspection in the eyes of our partners, countries to which we export and our international buyers. Have you heard about that? Is that a concern for your organization?

4:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada

Richard Phillips

Actually, I've been a seed grower for over 20 years, and my father and my grandfather were seed growers as well. We were initially concerned about that. I think we've communicated very clearly, though, to the government and the people responsible that if you're not going to do it, you have to watch whoever we license to do it, to make sure they are well-qualified to do the job. As long as the people are qualified and they follow up and spot-check them, then I think we'll be okay. But it's really critical that good people are put into the positions. Otherwise we'd be better off leaving it with the government.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you.

I have 30 seconds left. Do you think that this is only a confirmation for the time being, and that it's too early to see how the process is going and to determine whether the initiative has been successful?