Evidence of meeting #124 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was important.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Rochon  Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Margaret Hill  Senior Director, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development - Labour Program
Anna Dekker  Counsel, Judicial Affairs, Courts and Tribunal Policy, Public Law Sector, Department of Justice
Adair Crosby  Senior Counsel and Deputy Director, Judicial Affairs, Courts and Tribunal Policy, Public Law Sector, Department of Justice
Jim Valerio  Director, Small Business Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
Darryl Sprecher  Senior Director, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Stephen Fertuck  Acting Director General, External and Trade Policy Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
Melanie Hill  Special Advisor, Strategy and Innovation Policy Sector, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Suzie Cadieux

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay. That will be it.

Thank you, Minister and deputy, for appearing before us on Bill C-63 and the supplementary estimates.

Committee members, we'll let the minister go, because I know he has a hard stop at 5:15.

Thank you again.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Thank you.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Committee members, we need to vote on the supplementary estimates. You have them before you.

DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE Vote 1b—Program expenditures..........$31,952,332

(Vote 1b agreed to on division)

FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS AND REPORTS ANALYSIS CENTRE OF CANADA Vote 1b—Program expenditures..........$420,000

(Vote 1b agreed to on division)

Shall I report vote 1b under the Department of Finance and vote 1b under Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada to the House?

5:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

With that, we will suspend for a quick minute and bring the officials up here to deal with divisions 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13. Hopefully, we can get it done before they go.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we'll reconvene.

With us to talk about the Economic Action Plan 2015 Act, No. 1, part 5 of division 9, is Margaret Hill, senior director, labour program, Employment and Social Development Canada, and Mr. Sadek, policy analyst, labour program.

The floor is yours. Welcome.

5:15 p.m.

Margaret Hill Senior Director, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development - Labour Program

Thank you very much.

Division 9 of part 5 is focused on provisions in part III of the Canada Labour Code related to interns, and responds very directly to the government's commitment in budget 2017 to limit unpaid internships in the federally regulated private sector. It also complements other Government of Canada initiatives to help Canadians, especially youth, to gain work experience in today's reality.

As you may know, part III of the Canada Labour Code establishes minimum working conditions for about 900,000 employees in the federal private sector, which includes industries such as banking, telecommunications, and international and interprovincial transportation, as well as most federal crown corporations. Part III sets out the rules for things like maximum hours of work, minimum wages, hours of work, scheduling, termination of employment, and also outlines and provides for a number of leaves.

Let's focus now on the interns part of this issue. An intern is someone who's in the workplace for a short period of time, and is there to learn and develop the skills and experiences they need to enter the workforce. An intern is typically a student who is doing a co-op or some other kind of work placement as part of their college or university program or secondary school training. Interns are also sometimes newcomers to Canada who want to be in the workplace to learn about Canadian work practices.

It's also important to recognize that interns can be paid and unpaid. When they're unpaid, this raises a number of concerns about whether they're being treated fairly, or even being exploited when they're in the workplace. Often, while an employer may call someone an intern, the individual is actually really doing work for which they should be paid. In 2015, the Statistics Canada federal jurisdiction workplace survey found there were about 13,000 interns in the federal private sector. The vast majority of these individuals were paid. Just over 2,300 were not paid.

The amendments proposed to the code in division 9 would repeal provisions related to unpaid interns that were enacted in 2015, through the economic action plan, and are not yet in force. The 2015 changes to the code established two very limited situations when an intern can be unpaid. The first is if their internship is part of the requirement for a program offered by a secondary or post-secondary educational institution or a vocational school in Canada or abroad. The second is if the individual's internship meets six specific criteria, such as its being four months or less in duration, the benefits of the internship accrue primarily to the intern, the intern does not replace an employee, and the internship is not a requirement for a position with the employer. In addition, a provision was introduced to specify that when an intern is unpaid, they are entitled to a modified set of labour standard protections, to be identified through regulations. This would include things with respect to maximum number of hours of work, for instance.

The amendments being proposed in the current bill would remove the second situation of when an intern can be unpaid, and the related regulation-making authorities that go with that second circumstance. The result would be that an intern would only be allowed to be unpaid if their internship is part of the requirement for their academic program. Any intern who is in this situation and is unpaid would continue to receive that modified set of labour standards, such as maximum hours of work, weekly days of rest, and general holidays that would be established through regulations.

I'll leave it at that and welcome any questions.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you.

Are there any questions on division 9? There are no questions. Thank you very much.

I think division 10 will take a fair bit of time, so I am going to jump to division 11, the Judges Act, if we could. We'll leave division 10 till the end.

On division 11, Judges Act, from the Department of Justice, we have Ms. Crosby, senior counsel and deputy director, judicial affairs, courts and tribunal policy; and Ms. Decker, counsel, judicial affairs, courts and tribunal policy.

The floor is yours. Go ahead.

5:25 p.m.

Anna Dekker Counsel, Judicial Affairs, Courts and Tribunal Policy, Public Law Sector, Department of Justice

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am here to speak to division 11 of part 5, and there are three measures reflected in the amendments to the Judges Act that are included here.

The amendments would authorize the salary for a new associate chief justice position for the Court of Queen's Bench of Alberta, change the designation of “senior judge” in the territorial superior trial courts to “chief justice”, and change the mechanism for payment of most annuities under the Judges Act. I'll briefly describe each of these proposed changes.

For the associate chief justice, funding for the salary for this position was included in budget 2017, and this new position is reflected in an amendment to paragraph 20(c) of the Judges Act.

With respect to the change in designation of senior judges, in the superior trial courts in the provinces, the head of the court is called the chief justice, but in the superior trial courts in the territories, the role is called a senior judge, which the Judges Act currently defines as the judge with the earliest date of appointment.

The proposed amendments would align the title in the superior courts in the territories with that used in the equivalent courts in the provinces, in the equivalent roles. The amendments would repeal the definition and remove all references to “senior judge” in the Judges Act. A transitional amendment would also ensure that any senior judges who served in that role before the amendments came into force would retain all of their entitlements, even if they didn't get the name change.

In terms of annuities, currently all annuities require an order in council be passed before they can be paid. However, the Governor in Council in fact has no discretion on whether to grant them. They must be paid. The proposed amendments would streamline the process for payment of all non-discretionary annuities to judges as well as survivors and children. In effect, once the statutory conditions are met, the payments can be made.

To implement the change, the proposed amendments would generally change the terminology, which currently uses the words “granting”, and in French, “accordées”, and it would be changed to say that they would “be paid”, or “versées” in French.

That's all I have prepared, but I'm happy to take any questions.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Are there any questions to the witnesses on this division?

Go ahead, Mr. McLeod.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

I want to say that I'm very pleased to see this change happening. I'm happy that the government is making progress on changing the names from senior judge to chief justice. It brings us in line now with the provinces, and we've called for this change for some time now. We're hoping that our commissioners will also become lieutenant-governors at some point.

I think you've done a good job telling us how the changes would affect the judges in the territories. Could you tell us how long this is going to take, for it all to come into play? What's the time frame around getting this all done?

5:25 p.m.

Counsel, Judicial Affairs, Courts and Tribunal Policy, Public Law Sector, Department of Justice

Anna Dekker

We are collaborating with our counterparts in the territories. These amendments would not actually be brought into force until all of the amendments in the territories would also be brought into force. Those amendments exist, but they have to be brought into force, so it would be as soon as that happens. I can't speak to exact timelines, but it is something that we are actively working on.

November 8th, 2017 / 5:25 p.m.

Adair Crosby Senior Counsel and Deputy Director, Judicial Affairs, Courts and Tribunal Policy, Public Law Sector, Department of Justice

If I might just add, in our discussions with the territories, they've indicated that they hope to have their reciprocating legislation in place by the spring.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you very much. We'll let the witnesses go.

We'll turn to division 12, the Business Development Bank of Canada Act. We have officials from the Department of Innovation, Science and Economic Development.

We have Mr. Valerio who's director in the small business branch. The floor is yours.

5:30 p.m.

Jim Valerio Director, Small Business Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

Thank you very much.

The division requests or proposes that the Business Development Bank of Canada Act be amended to increase BDC's paid-in capital limit to $4.5 billion. The BDC is subject to a paid-in capital limit under the BDC Act. It's currently set at $3 billion. This limit concerns the capital injected into the BDC by the Government of Canada, the sole shareholder. As of March 31, 2017, the paid-in capital limit of the BDC totalled $2.4 billion.

In budget 2017, the government announced that it is making available nearly $1.4 billion in new financing through the BDC and Export Development Canada to help Canada's clean-tech firms grow and expand. As well, budget 2017 announced that the government is making available, through the BDC, $400 million for a new venture capital catalyst initiative that will increase late-stage venture capital available to Canadian entrepreneurs.

To implement these two initiatives, the BDC would require an injection of new capital in the amount that surpasses the current limit of $3 billion. It is therefore proposed to increase the BDC's paid-in capital limit to $4.5 billion to allow the government to inject the necessary capital for the BDC to deliver these budget 2017 initiatives, and for future initiates or contingencies that may emerge.

I welcome any questions.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you.

Are there any questions?

Tom.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

This is a 50% increase of what you had before in terms of the total equity you could have.

When was the last time this was increased?

5:30 p.m.

Director, Small Business Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

Jim Valerio

It was in 2009, for a stimulus package.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

What was the increase then?

5:30 p.m.

Director, Small Business Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

Jim Valerio

Roughly about the same amount, $1.5 billion.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

It was $1.5 billion, then 2009 comes around, another $1.5 billion, and now another $1.5 billion.

5:30 p.m.

Director, Small Business Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

Jim Valerio

Correct.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

This will be going to those different programs so the government, through the BDC, can borrow for these different programs.

5:30 p.m.

Director, Small Business Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

Jim Valerio

Correct.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

In case of any emergencies, or bad loans or things that go wrong, you feel that this will give you a sufficient amount of money to ensure that you'll have a float.