Evidence of meeting #150 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was approach.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We're trying to solve for ensuring that we have long-term economic growth in this country, growth that's not hampered because of environmental challenges, including climate change. We know that this approach is the way to do that.
We're seeing businesses follow along and recognize that this is critically important. What we will say is that the approaches taken in different provinces will have different long-term, positive impacts based on what they do.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Right.
The question was whether it will cost more than $500, and you didn't answer, so then I asked if it will cost more than $1,000 for the average household. You didn't answer that either. Will it cost more than $1,500 for the average Canadian household to pay this federal carbon tax when it's fully implemented?
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I think the challenge that you're facing is that you're asking the wrong question.
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
What you should be asking is this: What are the advantages to the pricing of carbon over the long term? It's a better environment. It's a situation where we'll have fewer climate change events. It's a situation where businesses will make investments that are going to grow our economy over the long term. That's what we're trying to achieve.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Excuse me, Minister. You just told me that I was asking the wrong question. For people who are struggling to pay their bills, for people living in Vancouver who are paying $1.60 a litre for gas right now, it is exactly the right question.
I have literally never seen a finance minister come before a committee and ask for the power to impose a tax without indicating what that tax would cost. So, will this tax cost more than $2,000 for the average Canadian household?
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
The decision will be taken by the provinces. What you are doing by focusing on British Columbia, of course, is ignoring the fact that this approach, this carbon-pricing approach, has been in place for about a decade. In fact, during that decade, household growth has been significant in terms of incomes in British Columbia, as has overall economic success.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
You're going to impose this tax. Will it cost more than $2,000 for the average household?
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Sorry, again, what we're saying is that we're looking for provinces to come up with an approach—
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
—to pricing carbon that will help the environment over the long term. Should they not get to an approach, we'll have a backstop approach that will be revenue neutral.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
That means free? You said “revenue neutral”? Does that mean free?
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
What we're saying is that the federal government's role is that it will have a choice of how to do that and will be able to do it in a revenue-neutral approach.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
You'll have to talk to the provincial capitals to find out that answer.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Excuse me. You said that the federal government would collect the tax in provinces that don't have their own carbon tax. You now use this term “revenue neutral”. I asked if that meant it would be free for Canadian households. When their gas bill goes up, when their heating bill goes up, when their grocery bill goes up, is that all going to be free?
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I think, from the federal government's standpoint, what I'm trying to explain is that there will be no net increase in tax.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
5:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I think what you're going to have to do is wait until September when the provinces give us the direction in terms of what they're each going to do.
5:55 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
You want us to pass this bill to give you the power to impose the tax now, and then after the bill is passed, we get to find out what it means to our constituents. Is that what you're asking us to do?
