Finance Committee on Sept. 25th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much.

From the Canadian Council for International Co-operation, we have Mr. Reilly-King, Research and Policy Manager. Welcome.

[Fraser Reilly-King, Research and Policy Manager, Canadian Council for International Co-operation]

Thank you.

Thank you for the invitation to testify today. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to present on behalf of the Canadian Council for International Co-operation. CCIC is Canada's national coalition of civil society organizations, working to end global poverty and promote social justice and human dignity for all. Our 80-plus members include many of Canada's leading international development and humanitarian assistance organizations.

Today I want to present on three core themes: first, the relationship between a more competitive economy and a more sustainable society; second, the key role that charities play in both the economic and societal success of Canada; and third, how Canada can apply increased growth to build Canadian leadership in global sustainable development.

First of all, in terms of building a competitive economy and a sustainable society, budget 2019 represents an opportunity for the Government of Canada to increase Canada's competitiveness by creating enhanced conditions for sustainable economic growth and tackling inequality. Recommendations highlighted in the alternative federal budget to which CCIC contributes include investing in first nations' infrastructure, closing tax loopholes and tackling tax evasion, investing in child care, and promoting a rapid and just transition to a low-carbon economy in line with G7 commitments in 2016 and 2018.

To complement these policies, we recommend that the government launch a national commission to generate a comprehensive, costed, whole-of-Canada action plan to align government policy with the sustainable development goals and to establish a coherent, whole-of-government framework of indicators for meeting and measuring Canada's SDG priorities at home and abroad. We're pleased that budget 2018 established an SDG unit and resources to support this work. We now need to get the work done.

Secondly, the government support for growth extends to all sectors of the economy, including the charitable sector. Canada's charities employ approximately two million Canadians and represent $135 billion, or 8.1%, of GDP. Moreover, they are a core element of Canada's national identity, contributing to our society as well as our economy. When Canadian charities do well, we all do well.

CCIC therefore recommends that the government implement the first three recommendations of the independent consultation panel on the political activities of charities, namely legislative and regulatory reforms by the Canada Revenue Agency, to enable charities to contribute to dialogue on and to the development of public policy. We further recommend that the government engage Canadian charities in a dialogue to modernize Canada's regulatory and legislative framework for the charitable sector.

Thirdly, sustainable economic growth is more than an end in itself. It is also an opportunity to advance transformative change at home and abroad. Budget 2018 should use the benefits of current and future economic growth to enhance Canada's global leadership in sustainable development and humanitarian assistance and its global reputational and competitive advantage.

Today, Canada invests just 0.26% of gross national income, 26¢ of every $100 in international assistance. In fact, at current funding levels, by the end of 2019 this government will have the lowest average commitment as a percentage of GNI of any Canadian government in a half a century. This is below the average of OECD countries and below Canada's own historical average contribution. Just last week, the OECD noted that despite robust economic growth, Canadian aid levels had dropped off in recent years. It recommended Canada scale up its GNI ratio to add weight to its global leadership and advocacy efforts.

With this in mind, CCIC recommends that the government increase Canada's spending on global development and humanitarian assistance over 10 years through predictable 15% annual increases to the international assistance envelope. This is in line with recommendation 85 in last year's finance committee report.

These resources should be accompanied by new, flexible, diverse and responsive funding mechanisms suitable for a variety of civil society partners. They should also include measures to target some of the poorest people in the poorest countries, including through a focus on gender equality and women's rights as well as through growing investments in women's rights organizations, and dedicating an increased amount of funding towards climate investment with 50% of funds going towards climate adaptation.

By taking these measures, budget 2019 will help build a fairer, more sustainable and safer world for all.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much.

From the Forest Products Association of Canada I welcome Mr. Neuheimer, Vice-President, International Trade and Transportation.

[Joel Neuheimer, Vice-President, International Trade and Transportation, Forest Products Association of Canada]

Good morning, members of the committee. Thank you very much for having me here on behalf of the members of the Forest Products Association of Canada, or FPAC.

FPAC is the voice of Canadian wood, pulp and paper producers, nationally and internationally. Canada's forest products industry generates $69 billion annually, contributing over $21 billion to Canada's GDP. The industry is one of Canada's largest employers, operating in over 600 forest-dependent communities from coast to coast, and directly employing 230,000 Canadians across the country. Our sector is one of the largest employers of indigenous peoples in Canada, working closely with over 1,400 indigenous-owned forest businesses.

The forest products industry is facing several challenges, including—but not limited to—trade disputes, carbon measures, regulatory unpredictability, wood supply uncertainty and lack of reliable infrastructure to support our transportation system. More critically, federal financing programs and policies must remain predictable, stable and robust for transformative projects to be successful and to contribute to Canada's carbon reduction targets, to contribute to indigenous and rural communities that depend on the sector, and to increase investment to be able to compete effectively in the global marketplace.

FPAC has three recommendations when it comes to the 2019 budget. I will be making a short statement on each recommendation. If you would like to know more, you can read our fulsome mission, which is attached to my speaking notes today.

Recommendation number one is for the Canadian government to continue providing support through several programs, such as programs that support indigenous peoples and increase their participation in forestry-related opportunities, businesses, careers and governance. The recommendation also includes research and development programs, such as those led by FPInnovations, and programs that help accelerate the development of new forest products, including those that can replace the use of plastic across Canada. Market access programs such as Canada Wood and Wood WORKS! help increase the sector's presence in the Canadian and international arenas, and help develop new markets under free trade agreements.

Recommendation number two is to help with the uncertainty and challenges related to our sector's ability to compete. FPAC recommends establishing an industry-government working group on regulatory competitiveness. This comes back to your last point in your last session, Mr. Easter, and I'd love to explore it with you in the Q and A if time permits. This would address the cumulative regulatory burden and access to wood fibre. We recommend helping to eliminate infrastructure bottlenecks and increasingly frequent transportation service interruptions, specifically by allocating capacity to Natural Resources Canada to support the collection, analysis and distribution of data provided by the railways through the implementation of the Transportation Modernization Act.

We suggest that government address the overall tax burden Canada currently faces and ensure that during the renegotiation of NAFTA enhanced trade facilitation and trade remedies are key objectives. We suggest that government quickly ratify the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership, ensuring further access to the Asian market for our industry. Finally, we suggest guaranteeing greater market access for Canadian forest products through the broad network of Canada's trade offices and promoting “Brand Canada” around the world.

Recommendation number three is for the Canadian federal government to collaborate with provincial governments, indigenous communities, other rights holders and stakeholders to develop an action plan to ensure healthy and resilient forests and support the workers and their communities going forward. We need to address the impacts of climate change, species at risk populations, and ensure resilient forests for future generations. Our approach to forest management needs to evolve and innovate. FPAC is advocating for the establishment of a national dialogue that brings together high-level decision-makers from industry, federal, provincial and municipal governments, indigenous communities, environmental groups, academia and research organizations. This forest-forward dialogue will develop a national call to action, addressing challenges, opportunities and recommendations for the forest ecosystem, forest management and forest operations.

Through innovative practices and active forest management, the forest sector is part of the solution to regenerate habitats, reduce fire hazards, and increase carbon storage in the forest and in renewable products.

FPAC also believes it is important for the federal government to provide a mandate to safety-sensitive workplaces like ours to be able to test employees in relation to the upcoming legalization of cannabis.

In conclusion, the forest products sector is a key driver for the Canadian economy and it is imperative that the government prioritize action to assist in its continuing growth. Our 2019 budget recommendations will help ensure that businesses in our industry are reaching their goals for expansion, innovation and prosperity to better contribute to the success of the over 230,000 workers directly employed in our sector.

Recently, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Minister Navdeep Bains announced a report called “Resources of the Future”. This report underlines the importance of natural resources and their role in the future economy and making Canada more competitive. FPAC strongly supports this report and its recommendations.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have this morning. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thanks very much, Joel.

With the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada, we have Mr. Savoie, CEO.

Welcome.

[Yves Savoie, Chief Executive Officer, Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.

The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada is involved in communities all over the country. Our mission is to prevent disease, save lives and promote recovery for all Canadians. Working with the federal government and with you is of major importance and allows us to set some lofty objectives.

We have focused on three main initiatives that must be undertaken immediately in order to improve the health of Canadians. We propose the creation of a fund, financed by the federal government, to promote a healthy lifestyle, universal access to medications, and a national program committed to the cardiovascular health of women.

A federally financed healthy living fund is necessary because of the alarming and growing rates of chronic diseases throughout Canada. This epidemic is a time bomb for federal and provincial governments' expenditures in health.

In this context, Canada's healthy eating strategy is a very necessary step. We look forward to Health Canada's completion of the implementation of the strategy consistent with the government's mandate, but we need to build beyond the current building blocks of the healthy eating strategy.

Important new initiatives that need to be funded through a healthy living fund include vegetable and fruit subsidies, universal healthy lunch school programs and improvements to the food security programs that serve the indigenous populations in Canada's north. These could have significant impacts in terms of improved health and the productivity of our economy.

To be cost neutral, a healthy living fund should be financed by a levy on the manufacturers of sugary drinks, these drinks being the main contributor to excess sugar consumption in our diet. It is estimated that such a levy could generate $1.7 billion a year in revenue. This levy should be an excise tax based on volume, and it should increase at the rate of the amount of free sugars per unit, as is done elsewhere in the world.

This levy could postpone 13,000 deaths and save half a million disability-adjusted life-years, therefore enabling more productivity in our workforce. Collectively, these changes could save almost $7.3 million in health care costs over 25 years. The healthy living fund would be cost neutral and would be enabled by the levy that I have just discussed.

As a way to managing chronic disease in the country, a fair and universal pharmacare system is essential in order to improve medical adherence, to shorten hospital stays, and to lessen the demand for medical services, which would reduce costs for the health care system.

From the sex- and gender-based analysis conducted by the government, we know that women are particularly affected by difficult access to medication and by a lack of coverage. All across the country, we can see that young people, low-income families, indigenous people, and women have the most difficulty paying for the medication they need.

The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada is therefore asking the federal government to provide funds to establish a fair and universal national pharmacare program. The program must be implemented in collaboration with provincial governments and indigenous peoples. In addition, it must improve access to effective, less expensive and necessary medications for all Canadians, regardless of their place of residence, their sex, their gender, their age, or their ability to pay. It must also lead to improvements in the non-insured health benefits program for indigenous peoples.

Supporting those living with heart disease and stroke, especially women, is important. Heart disease is the leading cause of premature mortality among women in Canada, and women who survive strokes have worse outcomes than men. We need significant resources to address the systemic issues that have resulted in women being under-researched, underdiagnosed, undertreated, under-supported and under-aware of both heart disease and stroke.

System change will take time. While we're advocating for change at all levels, we first need to hear more from those who are directly affected by heart disease and stroke. We seek to lead a nationwide program to engage women to share their experiences and to build solutions around the health-based inequities they face.

We are therefore calling on the federal government to commit $5 million over five years for a nationwide engagement program that can increase women's participation in research, and support proper diagnosis and treatment while enhancing information sharing about prevention and risks.

Mr. Chair, distinguished members of Parliament, thank you for your attention.

I am happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Yves.

From the International Institute for Sustainable Development, we welcome Mr. Vaughan, president and CEO.

[Scott Vaughan, President and Chief Executive Officer, International Institute for Sustainable Development]

Mr. Chair, vice-chairs, honourable members, good morning. Thank you very much for inviting us. I'm joined by my colleague Yanick Touchette.

I want to focus my brief remarks this morning on three recommendations contained in the recent report of the Green Budget Coalition, of which IISD is a member. That report is entitled “Recommendations for Budget 2019”. The three priorities I'll mention are sustainable agriculture, freshwater stewardship and subsidy reform.

Honourable members will recall that a key focus of the Barton reports centred on opportunities for Canada as a global leader in agricultural production and international trade. Those reports underscored the importance of increasing investments in agricultural innovation, productivity enhancement, and digital and open data tools. Those investments, according to the Barton reports, could help move Canada from its current ranking as the world's seventh-largest agricultural exporter to the world's second largest. We believe an important part of that ambitious agricultural innovation agenda includes sustainable agriculture.

Evidence shows that global demand for sustainable agriculture is growing. IISD colleagues track global trends in sustainable commodity production, third party sustainability certification, and trade on an ongoing basis. To illustrate, roughly one-third of the current $9-billion global palm oil market conforms to some sustainability standards. For coffee, 40% of what we consume has some kind of third party sustainability standard.

Earlier this year, the World Economic Forum and IISD examined trends and emerging opportunities in global agricultural supply chains and sustainability standards. Especially since the 2015 sustainable development goals and the Paris climate agreement, there is greater convergence of a demand-side pull from consumers wanting greater choices that embed organic, fair trade, sustainable and climate-smart values with a supply-side push from growers and distributors to include sustainability choices. Trade agreements like the WTO, Mercosur, CETA and others could and should have a bigger role in supporting this convergence through such tools as mutual recognition equivalency of different standards.

Mr. Chair, I'd be glad to share the reports I've just mentioned with members of the committee through the clerk, but in light of these trends, we encourage increased investments in federal agri-environmental programs, as well as investments in research and development in environmentally sustainable agriculture as well as ways to reduce food waste.

The second priority is freshwater stewardship. IISD is proud to run the Experimental Lakes Area, which marks its 50th anniversary in 2018. It's important that the federal government continue working with different jurisdictions and communities across Canada to address both well-known problems like non-point phosphorous, chemical and other pollution, and the emerging challenges facing lakes and rivers throughout the country associated with climate impacts changing hydrological cycles. We therefore encourage investments that anticipate and respond to climate-related effects on Canada's freshwater systems as well as investments for aquatic restoration, including working with farmers in protecting and restoring wetlands.

Finally, on subsidies, for over a decade IISD has worked to identify and eliminate subsidies that support, largely indirectly through tax treatment, fossil fuels. While the cost to implement Canada's promise at the 2009 G20 Pittsburgh summit of phasing out all of these subsidies is small, the direct and indirect savings measured in avoided greenhouse gas emissions, public health benefits, and others are substantial. We welcome the progress by successive federal governments in sunsetting several fossil fuel subsidies over the past decade. We encourage more action to reach or exceed the 2009 target of 2025 for eliminating all inefficient fossil fuel subsidies.

Transparency plays a crucial role in reforming fossil fuel subsidies, a view underscored by the Auditor General. As the government begins an international peer-review process of its fossil fuel subsidies, we look forward to better accounting transparency. Given my colleagues' work with other governments across the world involved in a subsidy peer-review process, we'd be pleased to share with the Department of Finance our experience with regard to this process.

Mr. Chair, colleagues, thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Scott.

Our last panellist on this panel is from the National Association of Career Colleges. We have Mr. Buy, CEO.

[Serge Buy, Chief Executive Officer, National Association of Career Colleges]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm pleased to be here on behalf of the National Association of Career Colleges. Being part of the panel is always interesting, as you can see. I can promise I will not offer to eliminate the subsidies of one of my colleagues at this table.

We'd like to talk about education and post-secondary training in this presentation. I want to talk about the single mom who is trying to re-enter the workforce in her mid-thirties, the middle-aged man who lost his job to automation and new technologies, and the new immigrant to Canada whose credentials are not fully recognized.

For nearly 200 years, since before Confederation, regulated career colleges have helped people in situations like those to get the skills they need to get better jobs. Today there are over 175,000 students who have chosen to attend one of Canada's many regulated career colleges, and that's each year. Those colleges are found in regions across Canada and in many of the ridings that you represent.

Just for the fun of it, I'm going to concentrate on Mr. Fragiskatos. I believe you have three of our colleges in your riding, including Medix and Westervelt, as an example, which has been in existence for over 120 years.

To make sure I pick on all parties, Mr. Richards, you have one college in Airdrie, your riding, the Academy of Learning, and Mr. Julian as well, you have Sprott Shaw, which is very well recognized in British Columbia.

We have colleges throughout the country that are training and retraining students who are very different from the students attending public colleges and universities. According to a recent study done by Career Colleges Ontario, our provincial arm in Ontario, more than half of our students have previously attended another post-secondary institution. Nearly 70% are women, compared with 50% at public colleges, and 57% of our students are over 30, compared with 10% at public colleges.

It shows the different demographics and the different clientele, if I can use the term, that we are touching. More information is available in the brief we submitted, at least one version of the brief, because I understand that we sent a brief in August, which has been distributed as part of your process. We also sent a lengthier brief, which I've just been informed was not distributed. Hopefully it does get distributed. Thank you to the clerk for pointing that out. I appreciate that. We hadn't translated it.

Our schools are strictly regulated by individual provinces, which includes approval and frequent review of curriculum and instructors, disclosure of financial information and more. Many programs offered at career colleges are accredited by third parties such as the Law Society of Upper Canada and the Canadian Medical Association.

Our colleges are uniquely positioned to help support Canada's indigenous communities. We offer on-site training and short-term and focused programs in a flexible learning environment. An example of our work with those communities and stories of our graduates' successes can be found in a version of the brief we provided. I think it's the last one.

There is no one in this room who needs to be convinced of the importance of education. When taking into consideration Canada's economic growth and competitiveness, the importance is magnified. The federal government and other third parties have identified various sectors as potentially having future skills gaps, meaning that there may not be enough qualified workers in the near future. Much of this is due to automation and new technologies. More and more Canadians are turning to retraining in order to re-enter the workforce and upgrade their skills and qualifications. Regulated career colleges are well placed to help those individuals.

With condensed programs that are easily adapted to meet market demand, provincial government oversight and a history of student success, our schools are the right choice for many students. Currently, government support is available to students who attend programs 60 weeks and longer. If they choose the same program, accredited by the same bodies, but it is fewer than 60 weeks in length, the same level of support is not available. This seems to run counter to the government's objectives.

While the federal government has made skills development a priority, we believe that this support needs to be expanded to include more options for retraining, such as regulated career colleges, especially for condensed programs—that is, those under 60 weeks.

More Canadians are choosing to upgrade their skills and qualifications, and they will help the workforce of tomorrow to grow Canada's economy and make us more competitive. We have seen across many sectors that the lack of qualified personnel is already having a profound impact on Canada's economy. In specific cases, it is clear. There are not enough qualified people to fill available jobs. Domestic retraining is one way to solve this dilemma.

Another is international students. Canada has always been proud of its international reputation. Hundreds of thousands of tourists walk through our attractions each year and it should come as no surprise that our academic institutions are frequently sought by international students.

Many international students choose schools in Canada based on the quality of programs, study time and ability to work following graduation through the post-graduate work permit program. However, currently international students attending regulated career colleges are not eligible to access this program as their counterparts in public institutions are. This policy seems to run counter to the government's objective of filling existing skills gaps and bringing more immigrants to Canada. The reality is that those graduates are well placed to help Canada succeed. Who better to fill those jobs than people who have trained here and experienced Canadian life?

If we want to grow a successful economy, we will need trained newcomers. Enabling international students attending regulated career colleges to benefit from the post-graduate work permit program will support Canada's objectives. I want to recognize the work done by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, but more needs to be done and more quickly. Ensuring equal access to the post-graduate work permit for all international students attending designated institutions, including regulated career colleges, would help grow Canada's economy and help the government achieve its goal.

Students across the country choose to attend regulated career colleges for many reasons: flexibility, smaller class size, targeted skills development and more. They should be supported and helped, not hindered with policies that run counter to their objectives. Not offering those students the same opportunities as those attending public institutions is unfair and is counterproductive to Canada's economic competitiveness. Working together to support our students today will mean a greater benefit tomorrow.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. Buy.

Thank you all for your presentations.

We turn now to Mr. Fragiskatos for seven minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing today.

My first question goes to Mr. Reilly-King. I'm very sympathetic when it comes to 0.7%. I have a huge interest in international development and have had for some time. I know very well who Lester Pearson was. When I think of 0.7%, I think all Canadians think of his leadership.

At the same time, I wonder if there are other ways to encourage an increase in overseas development assistance. On an annual basis, as you know, we're giving around $5 billion, but remittances total on average per year $24 billion. So $24 billion is sent by Canadians to family members in need in their country of origin, who find themselves certainly in difficult situations if not in outright poverty.

What some observers have said is that instead of focusing on 0.7% and getting to that goal, as laudable as that is, are there not other ways to get to the same outcome? To be more specific, the cost of transferring a remittance is sometimes up to 17%. Firms that are the middlemen, if you like, are charging sometimes up to 17% to transfer those fees.

The G8, or the then G8 in 2009, said that the number should be 5%. Sometimes it is, but quite often it's not. I wonder if you have anything to say on that.

[Fraser Reilly-King]

Certainly. I think it's both, actually, and maybe a little bit more. Official development assistance is the most immediate source of revenue, if you want, or funding for reducing poverty, for tackling inequality, for ensuring that we leave no one behind. The sorts of investments that we need to make in tackling poverty aren't going to come from other sources of finance. I think ODA, official development assistance, is still a key resource for tackling inequality.

I agree with you fully that there are other sources of finance that we need to add to this mix. We know that it's going to cost trillions of dollars to realize the sustainable development goals, so we need to think about remittances. How can we reduce the amount of transfer fees that individuals are paying? With regard to remittances, I think it is also a conscious choice by an individual to use migration as a source of income for their family. In the Philippines, for example, their biggest export is their people, but that comes at a social cost to the individuals, the children and the families they leave behind.

Hopefully this week when Prime Minister Trudeau speaks to the United Nations, he'll talk about other initiatives, including how we might direct some of our pension funds or how we can start directing more foreign direct investment towards developing countries and countries that need it.

[Peter Fragiskatos]

Thank you very much.

It's all about incentives, and when you have a 17% commission, it doesn't offer much of an incentive to give back. Certainly the Philippines is a good example. When it comes to remittances, the countries in order are China, India and the Philippines. That's where new Canadians are sending back money most to, and, yes, they've left but it's our gain. They're here. They're working here and offering an incentive to them so that they can send money back to those in need. I think that ought to be on the table, particularly in light of the fact that getting to 0.7% would be very expensive, again, as laudable a goal is that is.

I have about three minutes left. I wanted to ask Mr. Savoie something.

You talked about pharmacare, and on this committee we are talking about competitiveness. That's our focus. Traditionally if you asked an economist what competitiveness means and how we boost it, they would talk about tax cuts and they would talk about less regulation, less burdens, less red tape.

You talked about pharmacare in your brief. You mentioned it here today. Is it proper to understand pharmacare from a competitiveness perspective? Is it important from that angle? Talk about its value for Canadians from an economic perspective and what it can add to our society.

[Yves Savoie]

My first comment would be that about two million Canadians are inadequately or not insured. A good portion of those Canadians are the growing number of Canadians who are precariously employed. They might be self-employed in a small enterprise or they might be employed in a low-wage job where there are no benefits that accompany their work, split shifts, those kinds of environments. Even young people might need to have a recourse to medication. Because they're not insured and they're a low-wage earner, they might forgo a prescription and the common cold becomes pneumonia.

There you have the link, I would say, between health and productivity. We need a healthy workforce to have a productive economy. We can't afford to have two million Canadians who are inadequately insured or not insured at all.

The point here is not to eliminate private insurers, but to make sure that the government palliates this gap with two million uninsured and that the floor, the level of public insurance, is raised up. Of the 200 public insurance schemes for medication in Canada—there are 200 of them—the ones that provide the less coverage cover only 1,200 drugs, while the best schemes for people who have good jobs provide coverage for up to 5,000 drugs. The reality is closing those gaps especially for people who are precariously employed and for people who are self-employed in small firms. The incubators, the innovators, the people who are setting up enterprises in their garages, they're the people we can't allow to forgo medication.

[Peter Fragiskatos]

Thank you very much.

I have a last question, more of a point, I suppose, to Mr. Buy.

Thank you for mentioning the colleges in London. We certainly appreciate the work that they do.

On automation though, there are as you, I'm sure, know, debates on the numbers. Some studies have suggested that up to maybe close to 40% of jobs in industrialized democracies like Canada could be lost due to automation, but the OECD just a few months ago in a report published in April said that the number is probably close to 10%. If we're going to focus on automation as we should, we need to know the numbers and would you acknowledge that there's no agreement on the numbers right now as far as the number of jobs that could be lost are concerned?

[Serge Buy]

I think you're entirely right. There's no agreement on the numbers, but there is full agreement that the workforce of tomorrow is changing, so automation is going to bring changes and the need for retraining. The people who will not want to retrain or will not be able to retrain will lose their jobs because they will need to upgrade their skills in view of the influx of technologies and robotization and artificial intelligence into their workforce.

[Peter Fragiskatos]

That's fair enough. I think we're on the same page there.

[Serge Buy]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you all.

Mr. Poilievre, you have seven minutes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

It's Mr. Richards.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Richards, go ahead.

[Blake Richards]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'll start with Mr. Neuheimer from the Forest Products Association.

In your opening you talked a bit about concerns with certainty in terms of regulation. You had mentioned specifically when you talked about that, the importance of predictability. You also mentioned a working group that you were suggesting, which would be an industry-government co-operative working group. Can you give us a bit more detail on how you think that would look, how that would work, and what you think that would accomplish?

[Joel Neuheimer]

Sure.

Before I begin, I just want to wish everyone a happy National Forest Week, celebrating all the great social, economic and environmental contributions that the forest industry makes across Canada.

Your question fits very nicely with a point that Mr. Easter was asking about at the last session. We've done a lot of work on trying to harmonize and simplify regulations and make them smart regulations. I mentioned specifically the government's initiative that has just been reported: the “Resources of the Future” initiative. We support that. That's an example of something that I think we should be doing more of.

I encourage all of you to do more of that on an ongoing basis. Don't make these one-off things. Don't wait until the 2020 pre-budget submission process to ask the question again. Keep this going. Keep business leaders and societal leaders engaged in those kinds of processes so that once you've identified your recommendations, you stick to them and you're very determined to action, whatever those recommendations are. Have CEO leadership there. Have the leaders of indigenous communities there. Have other leaders from communities there to make sure that you can go ahead as government and make those changes. Those are actually mission critical. If we don't do that, if we don't get better at this, we're going to lose out to our international competition, and we don't want that. We want sectors like ours to continue to help pay the bills, including those for all the great social programming that Canada does.

Basically in response to your question I would recommend that you keep those business, indigenous and community leaders engaged, and make it happen once you identify the right recommendations.

Thanks for your question.

[Blake Richards]

I'll just follow up on that a little further. In the earlier panel, the idea of some of the overlap that happens between different levels of government was mentioned. I would assume that this would be something that you would agree that we need to look at: making sure that regulatory processes aren't overlapping with and duplicating each other. That's one part of it.

The second part is that one of the things that isn't often done is looking at regulations that maybe have become redundant or things like that. What would you recommend in terms of looking at that and making sure that we're not always creating new regulations, but finding ways to review regulations and determine what might not be necessary any longer?