Evidence of meeting #168 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was canada's.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Morna Ballantyne  Executive Director, Child Care Now
Brendan Marshall  Vice-President, Economic and Northern Affairs, Mining Association of Canada
Sarah Watts-Rynard  Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
Michael Gullo  Senior Director, Policy and Public Affairs, Railway Association of Canada
David Snider  Director, Sierra Club Canada Foundation
Richard Rémillard  Board Director, Startup Canada
Peter Fragiskatos  London North Centre, Lib.
Victoria Lennox  Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Startup Canada
Blake Richards  Banff—Airdrie, CPC
Kim Rudd  Northumberland—Peterborough South, Lib.
Victor Wong  Member, Tax Committee, Railway Association of Canada
Keith Newman  Board Member, Canadian Health Coalition
Chris Roberts  National Director, Social and Economic Policy Department, Canadian Labour Congress
Andrew Van Iterson  Manager, Green Budget Coalition
Charlotte Bell  President and Chief Executive Officer, Tourism Industry Association of Canada
Paul Davidson  President, Universities Canada
David Al-Aidroos  As an Individual
Carolyn Webb  As an Individual
Sana Musa  As an Individual
Alain Trépanier  As an Individual
Roy Goodall  As an Individual
Stéphane Laviolette  As an Individual
Mary Patricia Blum  As an Individual
Jean-François Tardif  As an Individual
Duncan Black  As an Individual
Edidiong Ekanem  As an Individual
Jean-Pierre DeBeaumont  As an Individual

4:15 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada

Sarah Watts-Rynard

Something we have to consider is that colleges and polytechnics are ideally positioned to deal with market disruption. With the changing nature of work and the changing skills that are required, we have to think about short-term, quick turnaround, industry-responsive training. The government's involvement in that is minimal.

I would say that the polytechnics are really good at working with industry, are very, very industry responsive in terms of the programs they're putting together, either for specific businesses or within a sector that is dealing with a change—upskilling, technology adoption. We see that they're ideally positioned to deal with that issue.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

There are some places where people can take a technical degree and then go on to university and get some credit for that.

Are academic institutions generally receptive to that, or is that another one of those areas where the connection is not made?

4:15 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada

Sarah Watts-Rynard

We're seeing more and more that within the college and polytechnic sector, there is a desire to look at where previous training has been done and move them forward. We see some of these institutions even taking people who have done an apprenticeship and become journey persons, and putting them into advanced standing in applied degree programs or in business programs because they'll become entrepreneurs.

Equally, thinking about university graduates who are perhaps facing disruption within their own sectors, I think these are the institutions to ask what they already have, what they need, and to get them that and turn them back into the workforce, rather than saying they have to start all over and do a four-year degree from scratch.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you for that.

Madam Ballantyne, I think your request was for $1 billion in funding in 2019 and an additional $1 billion each year until we reach 1% of GDP. What is that number and how many years would it take to reach that? You're suggesting $1 billion, and $1 billion more each year, until you reach what number annually?

4:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Child Care Now

Morna Ballantyne

To a great extent, it would depend on the GDP. Right now we're at 0.04%, so we have a long way to go to reach the benchmark. We think that we could get there with both federal and provincial support. We're not relying only on federal spending to reach the 1%, but also provincial and territorial investments. We think it's probably a 10-year plan.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

What would that number be now? Would it be $10 billion?

4:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Child Care Now

Morna Ballantyne

The 11-year plan that was announced by the federal government in 2017.... Right now we're at $540 million. The problem is that it doesn't ramp up. It will ramp up more, according to the plan, in the last five years. Even then, we only get to just under $900 million by the end of the 11 years.

To give you perspective, in 2005 the then Liberal government announced a child care plan and spending; it proposed just over $1 billion a year. That's back in 2005, in 2005 dollars.

We think it's doable because it was on the agenda more than 10 years ago. The longer we wait, the more catching up we'll have to do.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you.

I have a question for the Railway Association.

One of the things that's been in the news lately is the Churchill railway line. Are you aware of any proposal that has come forward that the government should support that proposal?

4:20 p.m.

Senior Director, Policy and Public Affairs, Railway Association of Canada

Michael Gullo

No, there are none specific to the railway. There are two recommendations that are strongly correlated.

The first is our recommendation of around having 100% right off in the first year of spending to facilitate greater investment in the infrastructure issues and challenges that would make a rail line more efficient and ultimately more safe.

The second recommendation we have built into our proposal is around support for short-line railways. That line is short-line railway. That's precisely the type of company we're referring to, which our program would be beneficial to create.

We've been advocating for the development of a program for years. It was part of our policy positioning in the Canada Transportation Act review. David Emerson wrote recommendations on this particular issue—that there was a need for a program. We're echoing that here. Really, that's a program that will provide assistance for the annual year-over-year spending for capital expenditures associated with infrastructure.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Are you talking about rolling stock or are you talking about help with tracks, lines and crossings?

4:20 p.m.

Senior Director, Policy and Public Affairs, Railway Association of Canada

Michael Gullo

We're referring to both infrastructure and rolling stock.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

What would be the main criteria to qualify for that? What would you be focusing on?

4:20 p.m.

Senior Director, Policy and Public Affairs, Railway Association of Canada

Michael Gullo

There are several models to consider. I would be pleased to share information about those models to the clerk and to the committee.

In this context, we're referring to a program where a company has to demonstrate that it's willing to make an investment in order to have some sort of investment matching. Some of the formulas that are worth considering are on a per track mile basis, where you can set a floor and a ceiling in terms of what those matching requirements have to be for both parties.

There are some models and that's the type of thing we have in mind.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I think I'm running out of time here fairly quickly.

I have a question for the Sierra Club.

I'm from a rural area. One of the issues in rural areas now is the growing distrust of environmental organizations and particularly environmental bureaucrats. In my area we have a federal pasture that was turned over from Agriculture Canada to Environment Canada. There was a project where the local community was going to have a major say in how money was spent. Research that was done—

4:20 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Julian

Mr. Anderson, please ask your question. Time's up.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Do you have any programs or are you encouraging the government to work positively with rural communities? I understand you're mainly urban-based, but do you have anything specifically where you're asking the government for help to work with rural communities that now want to work on environmental issues but feel that the government is not always on their side?

4:20 p.m.

Director, Sierra Club Canada Foundation

David Snider

We don't have a specific program, but we certainly would encourage local people to organize and reach out to us. That's the benefit of a grassroots organization. It's that we can provide assistance for them to strategize on how best to work collaboratively with all organizations and all levels of government to find a reasonable solution.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Julian

Thank you very much.

Since I am chairing this meeting, if there is no objection, I would like to share my time with Mr. Dusseault, as usual.

Mr. Dusseault, you have seven minutes.

4:20 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Thank you.

Although I am a regular member of the Standing Committee on Finance, I am happy to be here with you.

I thank the witnesses for joining us.

I will begin quickly to cover as many topics as possible, starting with daycares.

I went over the committee's report that was published last year as part of pre-budget consultations. Recommendation 26 was to fund the development and administration of an early learning and child care plan. It is clear that the issue has not made any progress over the past year. The report consisted of 92 recommendations. I don't want to be a pessimist, but at first glance, the government has followed up on very few of them.

Ms. Ballantyne, in the report the committee will submit in advance of the 2019 budget, should we call for an affordable and accessible universal plan? Do you think we should take things further, as the government has not done anything since last year?

4:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Child Care Now

Morna Ballantyne

Yes, it would be an excellent recommendation if the objective of the committee is to come up with recommendations that would contribute to economic growth, to gender equality and to the well-being of families and particularly of young children under the age of six who are lacking in adequate services. It's not enough to just recommend broad objectives, though. We need recommendations specifically around money. The Liberal government has to recognize and act on the fact that the funding commitments at this point, although welcome—because we went for many years without any funding commitments at the federal level—are simply inadequate to be able to actually build the system we need.

I wouldn't agree with you entirely that nothing has happened in the last year. There have been developments, particularly at the provincial and territorial levels. Some have been good. Some have not been so good. We've had some recent provincial elections, and one in particular might result in major rollbacks on some of the improvements we saw in the last 12 months.

What we need through the federal budget is a more robust commitment of funding, but also with some conditions attached to that funding. We also need timetables and a requirement that measures be taken so we can actually see change that really becomes entrenched. Right now we're just getting patches to a very broken market-based system, and what we really need is a very different kind of approach and system to child care.

Because we have so many witnesses from important sectors of the economy, I want to suggest that that kind of investment will deal with labour force challenges across the economy, across the sector and across the country. You're not going to see great changes in the participation of women in sectors of the economy where they continue to be largely excluded unless there is a firm policy in support of child care and other family supports. It's just not going to happen.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Thank you for that very complete answer.

In my area, there is a railway project between Sherbrooke and Montreal. That regional railway needs an upgrade in order to have passenger trains, as safety measures are different for passenger trains.

Could the regional railway funding program you talked about apply in that case? Would it make it possible to make upgrades, so that trains could go faster, and thereby increase safety on regional railways?

4:25 p.m.

Senior Director, Policy and Public Affairs, Railway Association of Canada

Michael Gullo

I wouldn't want to exclude them from the proposal that we put in front. The principal focus of the recommendation is short-line freight railways.

That being said, there are short-line railways, some in Quebec, that have a split service model whereby they're providing both passenger and freight services. I don't see why the subject railway that we're referring to wouldn't be able to apply to a program like this and benefit in terms of providing the investments for the infrastructure and also bringing the passenger carrier piece on board. It would be completely reasonable.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Exactly. The project is intended to split the railway between freight services and passenger services.

I will switch to a completely different topic and turn to the Sierra Club Canada Foundation representatives.

I will rely on your experience and your brief. Is the purchase of a $4.5-billion pipeline from an American oil company in Texas the biggest subsidy you have seen? That $4.5 billion is going directly into the pockets of shareholders who met for about an hour and accepted the Government of Canada's offer. That is our collective money.

September 26th, 2018 / 4:30 p.m.

Director, Sierra Club Canada Foundation

David Snider

I don't have information on all the subsidies that have been provided over the years, but I think this is one of the largest ones.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

That's also what I think.

You talked about the G20 strategy to phase out subsidies to oil companies. Can you rank Canada among the G20 countries in terms of that objective? Is Canada the only country to take a step back rather than forward in that area?