Finance Committee on Oct. 15th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you. We may have another opportunity—Mr. McLeod, I think you want in for a second round. Just before you do, on the $21.5 million to Yukon university, are there discussions ongoing with any part of the federal government at the moment? Has there been correspondence or discussions of any kind with any of the ministries?

[Dr. Karen Barnes]

We haven't had discussions with the ministers, but I have been in Ottawa twice over the last few months and met with a number of the different departments, including Indigenous and Northern Affairs, ESDC and CanNor on a couple of occasions. Certainly, we meet regularly with the tri-councils, which are the three granting councils, because we are recipients of a number of research grants in the north at Yukon College and we want to make sure that this continues at the university.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

On the granting councils, I'm not sure, but I believe it was Kelsey who said that you are not able to access those research monies from SSHRC, etc. Why not?

[Kelsey Wrightson]

We're not able to access it because we don't have institutional recognition. SSHRC recently opened up the application to allow indigenous not-for-profit organizations to apply for SSHRC funding only, so we jumped at that and applied for three grants right away. Hopefully we'll hear in the next couple of weeks. With that, they did not also offer the opportunity for indigenous not-for-profits to access the indirect costs associated.

With eligible institutions, you get complementary funding to help support things, like infrastructure and administration costs. Indigenous not-for-profit organizations don't receive that funding. We receive research grants, but then no funding to actually support the implementation of those research grants. We've also been in conversation with SSHRC about that, to try to level the playing field so it doesn't actually cost us to administer research.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Karen.

[Dr. Karen Barnes]

To clarify, Yukon College has been eligible for NSERC and SSHRC, for a number of years, and we currently have multi-million of dollars' worth of research grants operating in the north. We are the principle investigators and the money stays in the north. One of the real advantages of that is that every summer, we offer about 50 students who from the north and who are studying in southern universities the opportunity to come north and spend the summer doing research through those granting opportunities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. I had one more question and it relates to the chambers of commerce and the Nunavut Resources Corporation. As Pat said, one of the things that we're looking at is how to remain competitive, especially when you look at some of the things that are happening in the United States, with accelerated capital cost depreciation, etc. Where do we stand, or where does your industry stand, on accelerated capital cost allowance?

Also, could you explain a little further about flow-through shares?

[Samson Hartland]

I may not be able to speak directly to the two initiatives you just put forward, except for the....

Did you ask about the mineral exploration tax credit? Is that what I heard you say?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes, that one too. I didn't ask, but go with it as well.

[Samson Hartland]

Now with regard to the CCA I'm not as familiar with that. What I can say is that when it comes to the mineral exploration tax credit, it incentivizes institutional investors to invest in the industry. There's an opportunity to see some of that credit back through a tax credit. In fact, the north used to have a special northern premium added to the METC that's not being asked for this time around. METC typically provides 15% back, but in the north we've additionally had a 10% premium added in previous budgets. That may be something we would want to consider to stimulate investment in Canada's north.

When we talk about competitiveness, I can't stress enough that we must consider and heed the warnings of national organizations right now regarding our slipping in the competitiveness index against countries like Australia that are further incentivizing exploration in their industries.

We are recognizing some telltale signs right now that are concerning, to say the least. Grassroots exploration is flatlining right now across the country, not just in Canada's north, and grassroots exploration is the pipeline that feeds and fuels future mines being created in Canada.

When we don't see activity on those front lines, it's almost like the canary in the mine shaft. We need to find out what the indicators are, what the problems or challenges are, and look to address those. I believe that the METC and what we've presented here today are some of those indicators that we've identified.

As for CCA, I'm sure that would be a competitive advantage to our industry. I would have to do more research to provide you with an educated response on that front.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Thank you.

We certainly have time for a couple of questions from each of the parties, and Mr. McLeod is first.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you.

I have a couple of quick questions.

Could you tell us when the 10% addition was removed? Do you have that kind of information to share with us?

[Samson Hartland]

You know, I've been around long enough just to be dangerous. I feel like it was about a couple of years ago, if I remember correctly.

I couldn't say anything definitively. I just know that it was there, and now it is not being asked for anymore.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Are you able to provide it, or can we get...?

[Samson Hartland]

Absolutely. I can follow up.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

My other question is for Colette.

On the issue of CanNor, we've been working quite hard to try to nail down CanNor as an ongoing program. I think we did that in the last budget, and it was pegged at $20 million.

Now, I think you and I know, and anybody who lives in the north who has had to deal with CanNor knows, that we've had issues with the approval process. The other issue, of course, is the fact that it's oversubscribed. While we're seeing increases in western diversification and programs in Atlantic provinces, we're still struggling to bring our program up to where it needs to be.

I was hoping that you'd be able to talk a bit about what you think the investments should be in CanNor, because it's certainly something that I think warrants further discussion. We've been talking about it quite a bit. I've heard lots from the north.

Where do we need to focus? Do we need to rebrand our program so that we have a specific focus and we can try to strategically invest?

There's a couple of questions there: How much should it be, and where should it go?

[Colette Acheson]

I've been on the job for about two months, and I moved to this job from a whole other sector, so my knowledge on this isn't terribly deep.

What I see in terms of the specific programs that we access through CanNor, and also my general experience with other federal funding sources—and I believe that people are doing their best—is that there's clunkiness in the system. When you have application dates in July and you don't have an approval until January, there is something there that's taking a long time for wheels to turn.

Obviously, I'm not that familiar with the processes, but with CanNor specifically, I believe we have a current agreement that expired March 31, and we won't have a decision on this year's funding until November.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

It's $20 million, unless it increases.

[Colette Acheson]

No, I mean for our specific projects, not the global pot. Anyway, so then I don't know whether this will happen, but it has happened in some of the other federal agreements, where we would be submitting a one-year proposal, get that approved toward the end of November and then rush like hell to try to meet all those deliverables before March 31 again. That does seem to be a bit of a pattern.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Scott wanted in.

[Scott Northey]

I have just one quick comment on CanNor. As a result of multiple applications from intervenor groups in the environmental assessment processes, CanNor said it wasn't going to fund any environmental assessment activities. It hasn't considered the fact that some groups want to be proponents of projects, and it won't fund those activities. In terms of economic development opportunities, if you're not going to fund the environmental assessment process you're not going to get behind large-scale development opportunities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. McLeod.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Chair.

To the Mental Health Association of Yukon, this is an issue I worry about quite a bit. I just sat on a study group with the House of Commons indigenous committee that is putting together a study on suicide in indigenous communities across Canada. We had a study that went on for a little over a year. During that time I started keeping a tab on how many people were committing suicide in the north, in Nunavut through my Nunavut colleague, and in Yukon and Labrador. While we did the study, which lasted a little over a year, over 100 youth committed suicide. It's a quick count, but I'm sure that's still going on.

Nathan and Tiffanie, how widespread is the issue of mental health in the north? How does it compare to the rest of Canada? Is it more focused and evident in small communities?

[Nathan Schultz]

I can't give you a specific number because I'm not sure how many suicides there are in the north. I do know—at this table we all know, probably—that suicide disproportionately affects northern indigenous communities. I think there are significant mental health needs in communities, a lot of which stem from the difficulty of getting resources into communities. I did speak to that earlier, about the great work the Yukon government is doing to start to address that problem by putting the facilities out there. I live in Carmacks, so I'm going to run away from here as soon as I'm done today. Those sorts of steps are necessary because the need is there.

Tremendous stigma also impacts the willingness for people to even talk about or to address the issues that they have, and I see that as an area of focus in communities, to address the narrative that we haven't been doing as good a job of addressing by not being in communities previously.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Yes, I think it's also compounded in the area of people who deal with the suicides. I know many social workers who have developed post-traumatic stress disorder by having to deal with suicide after suicide. I know one lady I talked to had diagnosed four over a summer, and she crashed. She couldn't....