Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #176 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #176 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Once again, thanks for the presentation.
I have a question for Chamber of Shipping.
I represent the Northwest Territories, and shipping has increasingly become an issue over the last while as the Arctic ice recedes. We're starting to see a lot more ships coming to the north. By everybody else's standards, the numbers are probably still not high. However, two years ago, we had 70 ships come to the Northwest Territories, and we don't have even one navigational aid in that area. We don't have any Coast Guard presence. We don't have any spill response. We don't have any protection for the Inuvialuit, who are complaining and telling us that their artifacts are being taken and are disappearing.
Therefore, I'm really keen on seeing more review and more research done in the area of Arctic shipping. Even along the Mackenzie River and other areas in the Northwest Territories, 95% of our supplies in the north come through shipping, whether it's through Montreal, or through Hay River and on to the Mackenzie Valley.
I want you to talk about your opinion on where the north needs to go in terms of improving marine protection, improving the opportunities for shipping. There are huge economic benefits in our communities. Cruise ships are now stopping and buying a lot of crafts, and they're also spending money in the communities.
These are opportunities that we never had before. Tourism is growing and people are welcoming it, but there are also concerns.
Maybe you can tell me what your organization is doing in that area, or if they've done any kind of research and have any opinions.
11:45 a.m.
President, Chamber of Shipping
I think the response could be as vast as the Arctic itself. I think the government's approach is looking towards focusing resources, whether that's research or actual physical resources, into corridors in the Arctic. This is a good strategy. It would be, I think, nearly impossible at the rate of change that's happening in the Arctic, economically, culturally, socially and with regard to climate, to try to address everything all at once, so the focusing of resources is essential in the Arctic.
I think you'll see a wide spectrum of operators in the north and, as you mentioned, the number is still relatively small in comparison to operations in the south. The companies that are involved in resupply of the Arctic are incredibly professional. They are integrated into many of the communities, and they have a strong understanding of the needs of those communities.
That investment in infrastructure is beginning. I think there's probably a call to accelerate that investment, both in infrastructure and, as you mentioned, in navigational aids and charting. All of that needs to be done in order to understand and also mitigate the risk.
On a larger scale, globally, you're right: There are eyes on the Arctic. I think it's still early for most companies to make an investment in a continuous trading route, but certainly there are companies that are looking toward the Arctic as having potentially shorter routes between major trading centres.
Canada needs to continue its involvement globally in that discussion, both through the Arctic Council and through the International Maritime Organization. Canada has ramped up its game in both of those organizations in the last five years, so I think Canada is on the right track. Maintaining those partnerships with Arctic nations is going to be important to understanding what both the opportunities and the risks are.
I think generally we're on a good track, but we have to make sure that the leadership—and this is largely the federal departments and the bureaucratic levels—is involved in the right places at the right time. At the moment, I would suggest that they are....
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
I want to kind of steer you to a piece of infrastructure that is lacking in the north—a lot of people are discussing it now—and that's the need for a port.
We have no ports in the north. We bring in a lot of fuel from the Asian part of the world, and because we have to transport it up the Mackenzie River, we have to transfer it to a smaller barge, sometimes in raging storms. You have barges bouncing up and down while trying to transfer fuel. It's an accident waiting to happen. We still don't have any double-hulled barges shipping on the Mackenzie River, so they're all going up on single barges. We have no place for the cruise ships to come up to dump their grey water. I'm not sure what they're doing with their water, because nobody is watching.
Could you maybe talk a bit about where we should open a port? Is that something you would recommend?
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:50 a.m.
President, Chamber of Shipping
Yes, absolutely, that port-like infrastructure and I guess the port can take on a lot of different looks. It may not look like the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, but certainly having infrastructure that manages what is essentially industrial activity is important, and I think there is some focusing in towards that.
To answer your first question, this past week, I think, the government announced four—yes, four—double-hulled barges, so that's a great step, and that needs to continue.
11:50 a.m.
President, Chamber of Shipping
To answer your question about how vessels manage all the pollution that they generate, both through industrial activity and through people, for the most part that's held on board, and what Canada is probably lacking is reception facilities to actually process that on-board waste. That is not unique to the Arctic. That is something we need to do more of and a better job of in all of our ports in Canada.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
I was there when they made the announcement on double-hulled barges, but those are not going to come on stream for a while yet. They have to be constructed.
I want to quickly ask Foresight Cleantech a question. I'm trying to follow what you were saying about needing financial support to access a fund. You talked about needing more human resources to access the program. Can you explain why you need to apply for funding to help you apply for more funding? Is that what you're saying, or am I misunderstanding that?
11:50 a.m.
Managing Director, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
It's twofold. One, Foresight is a non-profit organization, and funding is never guaranteed. We started off with funding from Innovate BC, formerly BCIC, and our other funding to date comes from Western Economic Diversification Canada, along with matching funds that we get from industry partners, generally corporates and the like. In terms of the companies, it's really the companies.... We only have so many resources. If I told you my team size and the number of people that we've helped.... We're two and a half people, plus the EIRs and mentors that we bring in, doing all this work with hundreds of companies.
For us, we would love to be part of the program, but we need resources to really put the program together to help the companies navigate. They need someone to come in. Imagine the start-ups. They're either one or the other; they're hyper business-focused with maybe a potential technology, or they're really intense technology experts with some business acumen that needs a lot of work to prepare them for all of the rigmarole they're going to go through to apply for funding. That's where we come in. We have only so many resources, and the better we can do to have a repeatable, sustainable message for the companies, the less money we need to do this.
I will say one thing. One thing I find is that we do a great program. I heard you talking about the transportation issues. That's what we do in our challenge program. We worked with the Canadian oil sands group and all their companies—Shell—and we ran a challenge dialogue to help them solve the problem of managing heat—hot water—in their processes. Transportation is one of our segments. We can run a challenge dialogue with you as well, but that aside, we had this program. It was running; it was great; and now we don't know where the next round of funding is going to come from, yet the result of those six challenges was $65 million invested. We assessed over 50 companies, I would say, with the panels that we put together, the experts, to help us go through this process, and the technology is actually being adopted.
We're making a difference. We're spending money and adopting these technologies to improve sustainability in clean tech in Canada.
For us, helping the companies know exactly what they need to do at different stages to prepare for the funding is what we think funding needs to go into.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
On that, just before I go to Matt, what's your opinion of the various application processes with the federal government when you have a request in for funding—on any of this, for that matter—in terms of the application itself, the time frame it has, etc.? Call it as you see it. I think it's quite terrible, but what's your opinion?
Ms. Jackson?
11:55 a.m.
Managing Director, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
I thought you were talking to the gentleman.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
You mentioned access to federal funding in your brief and said to “streamline” the funding process.
11:55 a.m.
Managing Director, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
In full disclosure, I've been CEO of a few tech companies and I've gone through this process myself. It's hard; it's painful and there's a lot of uncertainty, and you never know if you're talking to the right person. If your contact leaves, you lose your champion inside the organization to help you get funding.
Complement that with the process. It's different for every organization. It can be small- or large-scale. We have small-scale, $2,500 grants that help you hire a student, all the way up to large SDTC applications for $5 million in funding. Each of them is different in terms of which works better. Some organizations should be using some programs. Some company start-ups shouldn't be using some of the programs because, in the end, they actually don't meet the requirements.
With some of the stipulations around making sure that your technology serves the local market as opposed to an international market, you lose access to the funding. They'd prefer that you make sure you're serving the Canadian market with the resources.
The process is complicated. You might actually get to a certain point where you get a bit of funding but it will be in the next cycle. Some of these companies are actually waiting eight to 12 months for $100,000 to do a small technology project. By then, they've lost the customer.
There's no certainty that the work you put in to apply for funding is going to get you a result. Don't get me wrong. I don't think everyone deserves funding. In fact, maybe we need to fund less but put more resources into the winners. However, we still need to have a fair, democratic process to vet the companies and make sure that they are properly analyzed so that we know they're the most likely to win with our Canadian tax dollars.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
Madam Jeanette Jackson
Absolutely.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
That is part of it. It doesn't matter whether it's a fisheries request or a technology request.
In the U.S., for instance, there are time frames as to when they have to answer. There's a process around the application itself setting out how much time it takes to fill out and a time frame in which you have to have an answer. You want an answer, yes or no.
11:55 a.m.
Managing Director, Foresight Cleantech Accelerator Centre
We had a program at Foresight where we had $250,000 in matching funds, where the company had to come up with the other $250,000. We had five companies prepare and they had the matching funds, and then they never received a response from one of the agencies. It was heartbreaking, because three of them broke down. We're investing everything to try to get them to market, and they had to stop the business. Two of them were able to find the matching funds, and we still don't still have feedback on it.
Clean tech is a big venture. The dynamics of clean tech are changing. It used to be $20-million or $30-million projects, just to do a test pilot, but now it's different. Clean tech is coming in all shapes and forms. It's software. It's small improvements in a process that might only require a couple of million dollars, but the outcome, not only for sustainability and global warming but also in terms of access to other markets, is huge.
We just need to be more dynamic in how we help the companies.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay. We need to be more dynamic in the federal bureaucracy as well.
Mr. Jeneroux.
11:55 a.m.
Edmonton Riverbend, CPC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that's an incredibly important point that our esteemed analysts had recorded.
Whether it's yes or no, a lot of these companies are hanging in the balance of whether or not they can move forward. How many companies have I spoken to that have said they're waiting on federal funding but have a plan B if they don't get it?
Removing that uncertainty would go a long way. Hopefully that's a recommendation we can see move forward in our final report. There again, it doesn't cost anything. At the end of the day, it's communication.
I do want to turn my questions to Dr. Ling and Dr. Wouters. Thank you for coming and being here today, and thank you for the work you do as part of the foundation and institute.
I've been looking over your balance sheet here and your financial reporting, and I'm just curious about how much money you receive from the federal government currently in the form of grants or contributions. If you could tell me even approximately, that would be fine.