Finance Committee on Oct. 18th, 2018

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Who funds the deficit, then, if you don't run a surplus?

[Michael John Peco]

Occasionally we will have a modest surplus, but we typically operate at a break-even. We just break even and there's no—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

Lastly, I'll turn to STARS.

I wasn't aware that the lottery didn't sell out this year, certainly, I'm sure, through no lack of effort on your part. I recognize and have heard that many civil society groups, service clubs and philanthropic groups in Calgary are really suffering. At still above 8% unemployment, there is a lot less appetite to buy lottery tickets. Thank you for getting that important point put on the record.

It did seem interesting to me, though, and I know provincial governments are under budgetary pressures, as all levels of government are, but over the decades, has there been a push toward STARS operations being integrated with the broader provincial health system, more similar to what happens in Ontario?

[Andrea Robertson]

It's a complex question. It's a good one, though.

STARS started 34 years ago and had no government funding for almost two decades, simply because the rural and remote communities said, “We need this.” In a provincial system in which we're always looking for funds for health care for one reason or another, we actually funded the program by selling baseball caps, and most people just volunteered. As it professionalized over the decades, this changed.

Should we be fully funded? That will be a debate that goes on a for a long time. I think communities and corporations in particular really see the need for us to be somewhat independent, to a degree. Why? It's so that we keep pushing the boundaries of medical care and coming up with new and better things. Do you need to have a physician available 24-7? We employ 100 emergency critical care-trained physicians to train our staff. Many would argue that this is too high a training, that it's too much investment. We think it's absolutely necessary to be best in class.

The debate, then, is hot and heavy. When we've gone to our provincial governments and have asked for additional operating funding, we just have not been able to come up with it.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I wasn't taking a position as to whether it should be integrated. I just found interesting the differences across Canada.

That was a great answer. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Mr. Fergus, you're the last questioner.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have a number of questions.

First, I have a question for the person representing Canada's Royal Winnipeg Ballet. You are seeking $10 million from the Department of Canadian Heritage, to be shared among several groups. Can you tell us about the groups who would receive that amount annually, aside from your famous company in Winnipeg?

[Don Leitch]

I'll start and will turn it over to my colleague.

First of all, from the Royal Winnipeg Ballet perspective, if you're talking ballet and dance, there are the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, the National Ballet of Canada, l'École supérieure de ballet contemporain de Montréal, and to a lesser extent the School of Alberta Ballet. Those are the principal major ballet companies that participate in the fund, but there are many other arts and culture organizations, and Kate will speak to them and give a broader explanation of them.

[Kate Fennell, Director of School Operations, Canada's Royal Winnipeg Ballet]

To be eligible for Canada arts training funding you need to meet certain national criteria. The 36 organizations that we're here to represent have all met the criteria. Some are really well-known national institutions, like ours. There are some other smaller and mid-sized organizations that may offer more niche training. They may be a little more boutique, but they're satisfying a national need.

A good example of that is a program run out of Toronto by Obsidian Theatre specifically to support professional development of Canadian artists with ties to the black community. That's a niche offering, but it satisfies a national need.

The issue is that the 36 organizations inside CATF right now simply aren't able to grow and develop, and we are losing our competitive advantage as far as our international colleagues are concerned. The best and most talented young people are starting to look to other countries to train in and/or are being exported to other countries as some process in their training.

Also, there is simply no room for new clients. There is a lot of really neat arts practice in multidisciplinary spaces also representing different cultural backgrounds and diverse stories. Presently the fund can't accommodate them, because it has been frozen since 2009 at the $23 million mark.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question is for you, Ms. Armstrong. What you said about the plight of homeless indigenous women, and therefore also homeless indigenous children, was very moving. What should the federal government do in its budget to eliminate or at least try to address this problem?

[Annetta Armstrong]

Thank you for the question.

I have a whole lot to say, but I think that it starts with a paradigm shift in the child and family service systems in this country. We come from a history of being taken away from our families as indigenous people, and the systems are still taking kids away from their families. I really believe that families can stick together if they're properly supported. These children are not doing anything wrong; their parents are struggling.

I believe the answer lies in making sure that the parents have the support and resources they need to become parents. The true intergenerational effects of residential schools are that indigenous people are struggling to even know how to parent. Sometimes I believe that indigenous people have a hard time learning how to take care of themselves. It's the parents that need that support to keep the families together.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Here in Manitoba, what are the differences between the needs in the cities and those in remote communities?

[Annetta Armstrong]

Of course, I'm less familiar with what the day-to-day issues are in the remote communities. From my experience, hearing what goes on in my home community in northern Manitoba, there is a lack of support just based on the numbers of support workers and the CFS family support workers. There is also a lack of homes where kids can go if they are placed in care. The northern communities are different, with community politics and how families are working together.

I come from a community that started taking parents out of the home and leaving the kids there. This is a very good way of looking at how to address this issue. It's not the kids who are removed from their beds and their toys. It's the parents who are removed and given the support they need to figure out what to do differently to get back to their homes and their kids.

I suggest that all of the rural communities should start doing that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll have to end it there, Greg.

Thank you all.

I have a couple of questions to Mr. Leitch and Ms. Fennell.

You have basically a, b and c, in terms of what the additional funding would do for the professional arts training organizations. If that investment were made, how would it enhance the ability of artists or organizations to create economy, for lack of a better word? In terms of a budget argument, we have to make an economic argument.

[Don Leitch]

We have reviewed and conducted significant analysis. I'm sure every sector in the country has produced for this committee, if not this year, in other years, arguments about what the contribution to GDP is, based on econometric modelling.

The arts and culture sector, broadly defined, equalled about $54 billion in 2016. Those figures are from places generating data, such as the Conference Board of Canada, bank analyses and bank forecasters. That's extremely large and it rivals lots of other sectors. We know how preponderant the arts and culture sector is, particularly in the major centres. We recognize that in the Royal Winnipeg Ballet and we do outreach.

That's a strong, vibrant cultural sector. It has direct and indirect spin-off benefits regularly in the economy. As Kate said earlier, we're producing some awfully fine, impressive talent, and increasingly we're watching them drain off to other countries where they can get better training and develop their careers.

We have trained people in Canada who are internationally renowned in terms of opera and dance. There are some inconsistencies. We'll put in more than $60 million a year to train a gymnast to perform on a mat, but we do very little for a dancer to perform on a floor. When you look at them, they're not too different, or whether they're an ice skater.

As Canadians, we all marvel at that and we take pride. It enhances our image internationally when we're more well rounded. We're not saying, and I, for one, certainly would not say, take it away from sports. I advocated previously for enhancing the “own the podium” program and how important it is. I'm saying that we have lagged in the arts and culture sector and it hasn't gotten the attention it needs, but it does produce a very significant contribution to GDP. We have attached to our paper some basic economic statistics and analysis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

I have a question for short-line rail. On a one-off payment or a one-off contribution to short-line rails, one of the difficulties is that I think the federal government was trying to get away from the one-offs with the Canada infrastructure program.

Maybe we've given a little too much say to the provinces in the program because they do set the priorities, but from a province's perspective, with the short-line rails in place, there is a heck of a lot less wear and tear on the province's highway system. All you need look at is the C-trains or B-trains going down some of these roads and then drive on them afterwards. You guys know what they're like.

In your mind, is there any other way that we can push the provinces to prioritize this as well? It's important to the economy. It's important to feed the class 1 railways. Is there any other avenue we could pursue other than the one-off money?

[Allison Field]

I'll just go quickly and then let Perry go.

I met with our Minister of Highways and Infrastructure in Saskatchewan recently. I would love to say that they're interested, but I don't think they particularly are. It is their highways. It's our provincial taxpayer dollars that are going to those highways, and then there is the environmental cost as well. Moving by rail is a huge saving to the environment.

I would love to have another idea, but this is the only one I have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead.

[Perry Pellerin]

One of the things that Saskatchewan especially has seen in the communities is the loss of hospitals and schools. When the railway leaves, the town dies.

As Allison mentioned, we look at short-lines as good for the environment. We're good for the highway network, and really, if we're lost, opportunity is lost. That's what we're scared of, the fact that we don't know what the future holds. There's lots of opportunity out there, but once we're gone, we'll never come back and we're at a critical point. We could lose short-lines within the next year now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Those are all valid points. We'll have to look at it. The fact that a short-line railway is there is saving the provinces gobs of money in a number of ways.

I know that three of our members had to leave. They have to catch a plane. On behalf of the committee. I'd certainly like to thank all the witnesses for their presentations.

For the committee members who are still here, we still have two open-mike speakers for one-minute presentations.

I'll let you folks go. Thank you very much for your presentations. They'll all be considered in terms of where we go from here.

We'll suspend for a couple of minutes while we get the open-mike folks to come up to the microphone. I don't think the rest of us are in quite so much of a rush.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We're down to a skeleton crew for the open-mike session.

We'll start with Gerald Jennings.

Gerald, welcome. Just so you know, there are no questions from members, but your information will go on the record the same as that of any other witness and be considered.

Go ahead. The floor is yours.

[Gerald Jennings, National Association of Federal Retirees]

Thank you.

My name is Gerald—Gerry, please—Jennings. I'm here representing the National Association of Federal Retirees, and I'll get right at it.

Canadian seniors are living longer than ever before and are on course to reach 25% of Canada's population by 2030. Defined pension benefits are the most effective means of achieving retirement income security. Retirees with defined pension plans are less likely to rely on government assistance, such as guaranteed income supplements.

A barrier to retirement security is House of Commons Bill C-27, an act to amend the Pension Benefits Standards Act, 1985. Bill C-27 will enable defined benefit pension plans to be replaced by targeted benefit plans. Defined benefit pension plans invest in Canadian equities, real estate and infrastructure such as railways, bridges, airports, utilities and pipelines. Pension funds are uniquely poised to invest in Canada and Canada's Infrastructure Bank.

The National Association of Federal Retirees asks the government to withdraw Bill C-27 to ensure that Canadian retirees continue to contribute to our economy and economic growth and not become a burden upon it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Gerry. You're not the only one who's said that this week.

Ms. Carlson.

Give us your first name too, Ms. Carlson, if you would.

[Jordyn Carlson, Engineers Without Borders Canada]

Good afternoon.

My name is Jordyn Carlson. I'm a volunteer with Engineers Without Borders Canada.

In budget 2019, I'm asking that Canada commit to a 10-year timetable of predictable annual increases of 15% to the international assistance envelope. This is in keeping with a recommendation that the committee made last year in its report on the pre-budget consultations and an OECD report on Canada released in mid-September.

I was really encouraged to see the Government of Canada commit to increasing ODA in budget 2018, but despite this increase, Canada's ODA spending is still near historic lows and well below that of many of our global peers. The increases will simply keep the aid budget on track with inflation.

ODA is fundamental to our shared global prosperity, and these investments support vital services such as health care and education in some of the least developed countries. Increasing ODA through a predictable timetable in budget 2019 would show that Canada is a committed global leader and that it's helping to create a better world for everyone.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Jordyn.

I think we've heard from Engineers Without Borders in all nine cities, plus Ottawa. Thank you.

With that, on behalf of the committee I want to thank the clerk, the logistics staff, the interpretation staff, and the analysts—their work is just starting. It takes a lot of work and logistics to plan travel in nine different cities, so on behalf of the committee, thank you all.

We will adjourn.