Evidence of meeting #183 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was back.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Trevor McGowan  Director General, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Pierre Leblanc  Director General, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Gérard Deltell  Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC
Blaine Langdon  Chief, Charities, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Larry Maguire  Brandon—Souris, CPC
Kim Rudd  Northumberland—Peterborough South, Lib.
Pierre Mercille  Director General, GST Legislation, Sales Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Gervais Coulombe  Director, Sales Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Scott Winter  Director, Trade and Tariff Policy, International Trade Policy Division, Department of Finance
Peter Fragiskatos  London North Centre, Lib.
Marianna Giordano  Director, Canada Pension Plan Policy and Legislation, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Lynn Hemmings  Acting Director General, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We're not inhibiting your ability to scrutinize this. What we have done, by motion, is to move certain sections of this bill to other committees, asking them to look at various sections.

A lot of this has been turned over to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development. They are to report back to us on recommendations or lack thereof. At that point in time, we will deal with what they report back to us.

There's ample time for us to further study the bill and raise those questions at that time.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

With whom?

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

If we require some of these witnesses back when they report to us, then we can call back all the officials on all these sections.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Who is “we”?

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

This committee.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Right, the majority of which is Liberal and will vote against having those witnesses back.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

No, I don't think you—

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

We have the witnesses here right now. Why can't I ask the questions?

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

It's because we're not going to get into two committees doing the same thing.

The reason the committee decided, in its wisdom, to farm out some of these sections was to do a better job and put it to the appropriate committee. I understand what you're saying on tax measures. If it's necessary to bring witnesses back, we'll do that at that time when they have done their work and we've seen the evidence that these very same individuals have put before that committee.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

My point still stands. As you admit, this is a taxation issue. A taxation issue typically would fall before the finance committee. We have the officials here right now. Why would we call them back to do another round of testimony when they could simply answer the question here now? In fact, they would have answered the question here and now if you had allowed the question to be posed.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

It's because we've already farmed this out to other committees based on the motion of the committee.

I'm going to leave it at that—

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

No, it's—

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

If you want to challenge the chair and my ruling, that's fine.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Sir, I have a point of order.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

My point was not finished.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Let's hear it.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

This is the finance committee. Finance studies taxation. This is a taxation measure. I am asking questions about taxation. That is my job. I am the finance critic for Her Majesty's loyal opposition. It is my job to scrutinize tax policy. It is the job of this committee to do exactly the same.

This is a matter of taxation. We have officials from finance who are responsible for this taxation matter before us. I'm asking questions. They are questions that might be uncomfortable for the government, but they need answering before Parliament gives approval for this bill. There is no reason why you could not allow two or three minutes for me to get answers to those questions. It would not seriously inhibit the work of this committee in any way, shape or form. In fact, it would be much more efficient to do that than to call the officials back on a separate occasion, which you claim is a possibility if we don't get the answers today.

My questions are not about the recommendations the environment committee produces. You're right that the environment committee's recommendations may come back before us. I'm not interested in their recommendations with respect to this particular matter. I'm interested in answers about the effect of this legislation and others on the taxpayer. You are preventing me from asking those questions. That is preventing me from doing my job as a member of Parliament.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I don't want to get into an argument, Mr. Poilievre.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

I'm not asking you to. I'm making my point of order.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I've heard your point of order. I'm ruling against it. This is not what these witnesses came here prepared to talk about today.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

It is, in fact. The gentleman said he had his—

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I'm not going to argue with you. I am ruling you out of order, and that's it.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

I have another point of order, Mr. Chair.

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. McLeod.