Finance Committee on Nov. 5th, 2018

Evidence of meeting #184 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was proposed.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Subject Matter of Bill C-86, A second Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 27, 2018 and other measures

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Manuel Dussault Senior Director, Framework Policy, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Justin Brown Director, Financial Stability, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Peter Fragiskatos London North Centre, Lib.

Yuki Bourdeau Senior Advisor, Capital Markets Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Eleanor Ryan Director General, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Jean-François Girard Director, Consumer Affairs, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Brigitte Goulard Deputy Commissionner, Financial Consumer Agency of Canada

Kim Rudd Northumberland—Peterborough South, Lib.

Mark Schaan Director General, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

Ian Wright Director, Financial Crimes Governance and Operations, Department of Finance

Darryl C. Patterson Director, Corporate, Insolvency and Competition Policy Directorate, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry

Martin Simard Director, Copyright and Trademark Policy, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry

Andrea Flewelling Senior Policy Advisor, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry

Patrick Blanar Senior Policy Analyst, Patent Policy Directorate, Department of Industry

Dale MacMillan Vice-President, Corporate Services and Chief Financial Officer, National Research Council of Canada

Christopher Johnstone Director General, National Programs and Business Services, National Research Council of Canada

Eric Grant Director, Community Lands Development, Lands and Environmental Management, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Leane Walsh Director, Fiscal Policy and Investment Readiness, Economic Policy Development, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Susan Waters Director General, Lands and Environmental Management Branch, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Michèle Govier Senior Director, Trade Rules, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Katharine Funtek Executive Director, Trade Controls Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Bev Shipley Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC

Nicole Giles Director, International Trade and Finance, Assistant Deputy Minister's Office, Department of Finance

Deirdre Kent Director General, International Assistance Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Mark Lusignan Director General, Grants and contributions Management, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (International Trade)

Michelle Kaminski Director, Office of Innovative Finance, Grants and Contributions Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Chantal Larocque Deputy Director, Development Finance, Grants and Contributions Financial Policy, Foreign Affairs Canada

Danielle Bélanger Director, Gender-Based Analysis Plus and Strategic Policy, Policy and External Relations Directorate, Status of Women Canada

Alison McDermott General Director, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Derek Armstrong Executive Director, Results Division, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Lori Straznicky Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Don Graham Senior Advisor to the Assistant Deputy Minister, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Bruce Kennedy Manager, Pay Equity Task Team, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Richard Stuart Executive Director, Expenditure Analysis and Compensation Planning, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Colin Spencer James Senior Director, Social Development Policy, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Andrew Brown Director General, Employment Insurance Policy Directorate, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Barbara Moran Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rutha Astravas Director, Employment Insurance Policy, Special Benefits Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development

Charles Philippe Rochon Senior Policy Analyst, Labour Standards and Wage Earner Protection Program, Workplace Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Thank you.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay.

We'll have Mr. Kmiec, and then Mr. Shipley.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Thank you for the explanation of how this is going to work. That was going to be my first question, but Peter asked it and I don't have to.

Can you tell me what the modification for this section is specifically in response to?

6:45 p.m.

Senior Director, Trade Rules, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Michèle Govier

It's in response to a couple of situations that have come up recently.

One is the safeguards. In the course of consultations, it became quite clear that people were very interested in having us allocate a tariff rate quota. If we were going to impose one, we realized we didn't have the legislative ability to do so. That was the most immediate one.

I can also flag that in the context of when we were looking at countermeasures to the U.S. section 232 steel and aluminum tariffs, those ended up being in the form of a tariff, but there is also the ability to impose something in the form of a tariff rate quota. Again, we would not have had the ability, had we gone down that road, to allocate those. It was really looking to make sure that we were prepared.

These are the types of provisions that aren't typically used, but in recent months they have been considered.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Where in budget 2018, do we find mention of the need for this?

The tariff quotas that the Americans imposed were on June 1. The budget document was tabled February 27. The BIA is supposed to follow the budget document. This thing is 900 pages long. It's an omnibus bill, and what you're telling me is that this is in reaction to something that happened after the budget was tabled.

Where in the budget 2018 document does it say there is a need for changes to the Export and Import Permits Act? Do you have a page number for that?

6:45 p.m.

Senior Director, Trade Rules, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Michèle Govier

There are references on pages 64 and 67 to the government's intention to ensure that trade is done in a responsible, rules-based way.

I would note that the section 232 investigation, of course, began a good deal before the measures were imposed against Canada in June. The government's consideration of a potential response did date for considerably before that was occurring.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Okay.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Shipley.

6:45 p.m.

Bev Shipley Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm just filling in, but it struck me as I sat down, in terms of the EIPA, in the agriculture area for a number of years we've actually been struggling with spent fowl in terms of the agriculture sector.

In terms of correcting that, it's not under the tariff rate quota. I'm just wondering where in the budget you would find how that will be resolved. Do you know what that is, by the way?

6:45 p.m.

Senior Director, Trade Rules, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Michèle Govier

You probably know more than I do about that.

6:50 p.m.

Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC

Bev Shipley

I'm sure Ms. Funtek does.

6:50 p.m.

Senior Director, Trade Rules, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Michèle Govier

There are other colleagues in Finance who work on that issue so—

6:50 p.m.

Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC

Bev Shipley

It's said to be fowl off of layers coming in, but is broiler meat. It was illegal, and it has been coming in for a number of years. I am just wondering, in terms of the budget process under Foreign Affairs and International Trade, if the foreign affairs minister is taking the lead. How is that addressed in the budget in terms of the final authorization to—

6:50 p.m.

London North Centre, Lib.

Peter Fragiskatos

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Is this question relevant to the discussion of the BIA?

6:50 p.m.

Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC

Bev Shipley

I would think it's fairly relevant. If you're in agriculture, it's very relevant.

6:50 p.m.

London North Centre, Lib.

Peter Fragiskatos

It's relevant for you, but—

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Yes, it actually is relevant when it relates to the border issues that are in this section.

6:50 p.m.

Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC

Bev Shipley

At any rate, I am just wondering. If you don't have that tonight, I understand, but I think it would be important in terms of our trade and in terms of what the cost to our industry has been and where that could be addressed in terms of the BIA. Could you do that, please?

6:50 p.m.

Senior Director, Trade Rules, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Michèle Govier

I will take that back. As I said, I am not prepared to speak on that today but I will take that back to colleagues.

6:50 p.m.

Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC

Bev Shipley

Thank you.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I would put the question to you this way. Will these changes in this legislation make it easier for the Government of Canada to deal with issues like spent fowl, which are in fact undermining the supply management system by replacing domestic production with foreign product that really shouldn't be coming in?

You can get back to us on that.

6:50 p.m.

Senior Director, Trade Rules, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance

Michèle Govier

We'll do that as a follow-up.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay. Thanks.

Are there any further questions on the division, Export and Import Permits Act, from members?

All in, all done. Thank you very much, ladies.

We go to division 17, international financial assistance, and there is subdivision A and subdivision B, I gather.

The first grouping is Global Affairs and Finance. Is everyone coming up together? That's fine, too.

I hear some sighs around the room. If people want to suspend for five minutes and take a stretch, we can do that after this panel, or we can keep on going. You can think about it.

6:50 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

I was on a plane all day. Stretching would be good.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay, we'll have a stretch for five minutes when we finish division 17.

On part 4, division 17, international financial assistance, and on amendments to subdivision A, amendments to certain acts, we have Ms. Kent and Mr. Heaton with Global Affairs; and from Finance we have Dr. Giles, Ms. Pang, and Mr. Edwards.

Go ahead, the floor is yours.