Finance Committee on April 29th, 2019

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

When would that be for most organizations?

[Trevor McGowan]

For corporations it could be any time. Their taxation year lines up with their fiscal year and they can pick off-calendar fiscal years for trusts.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

But could they have to apply for it within another 12 months?

[Trevor McGowan]

The filing deadline for corporations is generally six months after the end of their taxation year. Most have a December year-end, but many do not. I guess, conceptually, if you had one with a taxation year-end at the end of January with one month's worth of qualifying expenditures, then the filing deadline for that would be six months after that.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

These organizations could be making financial decisions right now, based on their assumption that they are qualifying news organizations, could they not?

[Trevor McGowan]

Of course, entities are free to make decisions based on their own analysis of whether they think they are going to be a qualifying Canadian journalism organization based on the criteria set out.

Although, as has been noted, while businesses can make decisions on investments and so on, and are free to do so, information relating to the advisory panel is still to be announced.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Poilievre and witnesses, just to try to be helpful, do I take it that on the advisory body and the panel, prior to any implementation of such, there would have to be a public announcement of some kind by the government? Is that correct?

[Trevor McGowan]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

So there is further information as it relates to the advice on these tax measures for journalism, but it would be done in a public way in how that advisory committee and panel would be structured. Am I right on that?

You're certainly in a difficult position. You may even know what's happening, which we don't, and I can understand why you can't answer our question directly, because the government hasn't made a decision yet on how this is going to be done. Is that being fair?

[Trevor McGowan]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I don't want to get hung up on this, but could we hold some of those questions for the minister?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

We will also ask him about this. Could the cabinet designate itself the body?

[Trevor McGowan]

Go ahead.

[Pierre Leblanc]

I'm not sure what's possible in principle, but the budget statement is clear that the government intends to set up an independent administrative body, so it wouldn't seem consistent with that.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

No, it's not about that.

There are two different organizations. There's the panel and then there's the body. Is there anything in this legislation that would prevent the cabinet from designating itself the body that determines who gets to be a news organization?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I have a point of order from Mr. Fergus and then we'll go to the response.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Mr. Chair, it would seem to me that we're getting into some very, very big hypotheticals here. I don't know what the line is in terms of what officials can answer and what would be better asked of a cabinet minister, but it seems that we've strayed over this line with that question.

I remember a former prime minister saying that if my grandmother had wheels she could be a bus. I think we're going to the “if, if, if”, and how far do we want to go on this? I don't think it's fair for the officials to to answer that question; I think that a cabinet minister certainly would be able to do so.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

On the same point, I don't want to live in a country where the government gets to decide what is fair for people to say and what questions are fair for people to ask.

It's exactly why I'm trying to find out about this body that's going to determine who gets to be a news organization and who doesn't. So you can continue, government members—and the Chair with his gavel—to make my point for me when I'm raising the alarm bell about the idea that this body is going to exist and it's going to determine who gets to be in the news business and who doesn't for the purposes of this tax benefit.

That's why I'm asking these questions. I think that Mr. Fergus has further reinforced the need for them. I'm going to ask it again; it's been interrupted three times.

Based on the legislation as it's written, is there anything that would prevent the cabinet from designating itself as the body prescribed to determine who is and who isn't a qualifying journalism organization?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I think Mr. Langdon wants in.

[Blaine Langdon]

To respond—again, to echo Pierre's point—I don't think that we have the expertise here to be able to answer what's possible. Certainly we're here to speak to the tax measures.

What I would point to, which is what Mr. Leblanc was about to point to, is that at page 173 of the budget, the government announces effectively two things. One is that they will be establishing an independent panel of experts from the Canadian journalism sector to assist the government in implementing these measures, including recommending eligibility criteria. That's the first step, if you will. Second, given the importance of ensuring that media outlets are able to operate with full independence, the government proposes to establish an independent administrative body that will be responsible for recognizing journalism organizations as being eligible for any of the three tax measures.

Again, going back to your specific question, I don't think we can answer the question as to what is possible, and further to some of the other discussions, we're limited in terms of what we can say by what's been announced. However, this is certainly what the government has announced.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Below, on the same page, there's a definition of something called a “registered journalism organization”.

We've already discussed what is a “qualifying journalism organization”. What is a “registered journalism organization”?

[Blaine Langdon]

The qualifying Canadian journalism organization is designed to be the set of criteria that applies to all three measures, so what would be administered by or recommended by the advisory panel and administered by the independent body.

The “registered journalism organization” definition relates to eligibility for qualified donee status. Similar to registered charities, registered Canadian amateur athletic organizations and other types of qualified donees, these organizations would be required to register with the Canada Revenue Agency in order to issue official donation receipts for gifts. It is an additional requirement for those organizations, but as I said, it's consistent with the regime that applies to existing organizations that are able to issue official donation receipts.

[Pierre Leblanc]

For registered journalism organizations, unlike the other two measures, an important requirement will be that they operate on a not-for-profit basis.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Right. It says here that a registered journalism organization means a qualifying journalism organization that has applied to the minister in prescribed form for registration, that has been registered and whose registration has not been revoked. The minister will get to decide which organization is a registered journalism organization.

[Blaine Langdon]

Yes.