Evidence of meeting #206 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was important.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andrew Marsland  Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Nicholas Leswick  Assistant Deputy Minister, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Margaret Tepczynska  Director, Strategic Initiatives, Financial Institutions Division, Department of Finance
Eleanor Ryan  Director General, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

May 1st, 2019 / 3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We shall call the meeting to order. Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, April 30, 2019, the committee is studying Bill C-97, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019, and other measures.

We have the honour of the Minister of Finance, the Honourable Bill Morneau, appearing before us, as well as Rob Stewart, associate deputy minister, and Andrew Marsland, assistant DM. I believe there's a number of other finance officials in the room.

Mr. Minister, the floor is yours. I understand you have an opening statement and then we'll go to questions. Welcome.

3:30 p.m.

Toronto Centre Ontario

Liberal

Bill Morneau LiberalMinister of Finance

Thank you. I have an hour and a half opening statement that I thought I'd start with. Seriously, though, thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the members of the committee for having me here today. It's good to be back before this committee to discuss the budget implementation act.

Before I speak about the measures in this bill, I'd like to thank all the members on this committee for their due diligence on the pre-budget consultations. That obviously was critically important to us as we moved forward in the preparation of our budget. Of course, I'd also like to thank you now for your work on the budget implementation act.

This bill is the next step in our plan to invest in the middle class and ensure economic growth. Clearly, investments are essential if we are to do that.

When I talk to Canadians, they say they remember the situation in 2015. The Canadian economy had slowed down. People felt abandoned. During the years that followed, we worked extremely hard to reverse the situation through investments in people and communities, investments that bore fruit.

Canadians, supported by the government's economic plan, have created more than 900,000 new jobs since 2015, pushing the unemployment rate to near 40-year lows. Middle-class families are better off across the country, and fewer people are living in poverty in Canada today. That's a lot of progress over three and a half years, but we know there's still much more work to do. People are still feeling anxious about their futures and their ability to make big, long-term investments in their families.

That's why our government, through this budget implementation act, is taking more steps to invest in the middle class and the things that Canadians need to succeed. I'd like to take the opportunity this afternoon to highlight some of those important measures.

For many Canadians, one of their top concerns is their job. That makes sense. Canadians want to take pride in their work and be able to support themselves and their families, but as the global economy continues to evolve and as things like automation transform the job market, the skills people have today will need to change. This is a challenge that all industrialized countries are facing. What sets Canada apart and what will help us to remain competitive in the global economy is our people and the investments we make in them.

This year's budget proposes to introduce the Canada training benefit, a new benefit that will help Canadians to prepare for, to plan and to get the training they need. An important part of the benefit included in the budget implementation act is a training credit that will give working Canadians $250 every year to put toward the cost of future training, a credit that can add up to as much as $5,000 over the course of a career. That's the kind of long-term planning that you, as members, will be able to see in the course of reviewing all of our budget.

Housing is another good example. Our government believes that every Canadian should have a safe and affordable place to call home. The budget implementation act would enact Canada's first national housing strategy act, requiring the federal government to prioritize the needs of the most vulnerable in our society. It would require the government to report on progress toward achieving the strategy's goals, like building 100,000 new housing units, repairing 300,000 other units and cutting homelessness in half.

The BIA also proposes measures to help Canadians take their first steps toward home ownership. It would amend the National Housing Act and allow the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to offer shared equity mortgages to eligible homebuyers. The first-time buyer incentive would reduce the monthly payments required for people in the purchase of their first home. For a new condo or house worth $400,000, the savings could be more than $225 per month. This measure is expected to help approximately 100,000 Canadians to buy their first homes.

The act would also increase the homebuyers' plan withdrawal limit, giving first-time homebuyers greater access to the savings in their registered retirement savings plan to buy a home. These measures would be especially beneficial to young Canadians for whom home ownership seems increasingly out of reach.

Housing isn't the only place where barriers exist for young people and that's why we're also working to make education more affordable. With the measures in the budget implementation act, students wouldn't have to start repaying their Canada student loans for six months after they graduate and interest wouldn't accumulate on those loans during that time period. That gives people time to start a career and to begin saving up. It's a change that sets young Canadians up for success, allowing them to focus on what they want to do, not on what they have to pay.

We're taking a similar approach with seniors. Through budget 2019 and through the budget implementation act, we're taking steps to make retirement more financially secure.

In order to help low-income seniors, we intend to raise the Guaranteed Income Supplement earnings exemption. This means that seniors will keep a larger part of their pay and benefits.

So that all workers may derive full advantage of their contributions to the Canada Pension Plan, we propose to register them proactively. The objective is to guarantee that those who contribute to the CPP and are 70 or more and have not yet registered to receive their pension benefits, will receive them. They deserve them. However, these are not the only measures that will allow us to protect Canadians and their families in the context of this bill based on communities and clean growth.

One of the other measures is to build a cleaner and more sustainable Canada. As you know, we already work with the provinces and territories to put a price on carbon pollution and fight climate change. We are going even further with Budget 2019 by making zero-emission vehicles more affordable, including for the businesses that want to renew their vehicle fleets.

The Act to implement certain provisions of the budget would allow those businesses to recover that investment faster.

Another way we're helping to protect Canadians is by combatting financial crime. I know this committee has done a lot of work in this regard and I know that you've looked at how we can best do that, and I'd like to thank the committee for that work. With this legislation, we know we can help improve Canada's anti-money laundering and anti-terrorist financing framework, strengthening the resources, intelligence and information sharing needed to identify and meet evolving threats, while also continuing to protect the privacy rights of Canadians and manage the regulatory burden on the private sector.

I could provide more examples. After all, as you know, this is an ambitious agenda, but what I'd like to do instead as I conclude my remarks is to thank the members of this committee for their careful attention to the bill. It's a bill that will help prepare Canadians for good jobs, make it easier to buy a home, and help young people starting out and seniors as they retire.

I'm happy to take your questions.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

We should have time for 14 rounds. We'll start with the first round of seven minutes for four speakers and then go to five.

Ms. Rudd.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Kim Rudd Liberal Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming today, and to your team, which I know has worked very hard on our budget as well.

As you know, my riding is Northumberland—Peterborough South. Mine is a 3,000 square-kilometre rural riding in eastern Ontario. The diversity of our economy and the diversity of our population are things that I am seeing reflected in this budget.

The Canada child benefit, which of course was announced in a previous budget, just to give some sense of it, brings just under $6 million a month into our riding. When I go around and talk to small businesses, shopkeepers and stores, they're seeing the benefit of that money being spent in our riding. The lift that's being received, in terms of economic development in my riding and, I would say in rural communities specifically, has been significant.

There's another demographic within my riding, I believe the last StatsCan numbers showed that just over 40% of my riding is over the age of 55, so seniors and issues surrounding seniors are very important to us. There were a couple of things in this budget that responded to a number of things I was hearing. Certainly in a previous budget, when we increased the guaranteed income supplement by almost $1,000 for the most vulnerable seniors, if I'm remembering the numbers correctly, that lifted about 100,000 seniors out of poverty and prevented about 150,000 from falling into poverty.

This current budget talks about the enhancement of the earnings exemption, whereby, in easy terms, seniors are able to work and retain more of the income they have earned without losing the benefit of the GIS and those benefits and supports that go along with it. One of the things that surprised me when I read the budget was the automatic enrolment for those aged 70 and over. What I was surprised at were the number of people who hadn't enrolled to receive the benefits they were entitled to. I know we've done that in other programs and I see that as something very positive.

One thing in particular that I'm not sure has received as much attention as it should is something called the advanced life deferred annuity. When you mention those words, people's eyes glaze over, but I heard from a lot of my seniors who were middle-income that they were looking for something that would help them, as they retired a few years ago when life expectancies were shorter. They're much longer and people are concerned that they're actually going to outlive the money they have saved over their working years in order to retire. This talks specifically to the ability of people to take some of their RSPs and move them into an annuity for the time past age 85.

I wonder if you could speak a bit about why that's in here and what you see as being a benefit to retirees.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Thank you, first of all, for your overall comments around what we're trying to achieve, and in particular, what we're trying to achieve around seniors.

I never really expected that I would be able to get a question on deferred life annuities in my role as finance minister. You might remember I co-wrote a book called The Real Retirement when I was in the private sector, and I used to call it a cure for insomnia. What I would suggest to people who had severe challenges with getting to sleep at night was just to put the book right beside their bed stand and that would help them enormously with that particular challenge.

I think what I can do as well with this issue is that I can take the notes on the deferred life annuity and I can put it by your bed stand so that it will help you out in the long term.

The fact that it's detailed and causes that challenge doesn't take away from the seriousness of the issue for so many Canadians, but it is important, as you said, to put it in context. We're trying to help people who have worked hard during the entire course of their lives to have a dignified retirement, and there are multiple ways we need to work to achieve that.

In this budget there are a few things that we've done, and this is one of them that we think will have an important impact on a lot of Canadians. The change in the clawback rate on the guaranteed income supplement is particularly important. For seniors who are in a situation where they want to continue to work, especially in their early retirement years, we've increased the amount of money they can earn before they get a clawback on their guaranteed income supplement. What this means is that they'll have more money in their pockets and it will enable them in those early years to be successful at work while they're partially retired.

The Canada pension plan automatic enrolment was important because we just thought that was the best way to ensure people got those Canada pension plan benefits. However, we found as we were going through this that there were 40,000 Canadian seniors who were eligible for Canada pension plan payments, and many of them who hadn't actually applied for it had only had small amounts of attachment to the workforce so they didn't necessarily understand that they were qualified. What we did was we made sure that we put funding in to actually find those 40,000 people and improve their ability to get those benefits. It will be huge. There are a lot of elderly single seniors, a lot of women with relatively small amounts of workforce attachment in the generation behind, and on average I think it's about $3,000 per year that people will be getting.

The deferred life annuity is another issue that we thought was important. We wanted to make sure that Canadians don't basically outlive their retirement savings. It's a way of us thinking about how we can ensure that within the confines of our currently existing retirement system. It's allowing us to provide more options for those Canadians who don't have a defined benefit pension plan. You'll know that with a DB plan, of course, people get regular payments monthly and they know what those are going to be for the long term.

Buying a deferred life annuity can give them a similar sort of consistency in terms of their payments over their retirement years. This will provide individuals with increased flexibility in managing how their savings are received in retirement so that they can take this as their new approach. We think it will enhance retirement security. For many people, it will give them a greater sense of confidence that their money is still going to be there during the course of their lives and it's not going to run out because they budgeted inappropriately maybe during the early years of their retirement and were left with not enough money in later years. It's an important vehicle and one that, as you say, didn't have that much profile because it's maybe something people didn't dig into, but I think for a significant number of seniors it will give them more comfort in their retirement.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We'll have to end it there.

Mr. Poilievre, you have seven minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

When will construction begin on the Trans Mountain pipeline?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

As you know, we are currently going through an engagement process with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion project. That has been announced to be a process that will end on June 18. At that stage, the decision on the project's next steps will come to cabinet and we'll come to a conclusion on the appropriate next steps.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

When will construction begin on the Trans Mountain project?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

As I said, I think what we want to do is to make sure we go through this process in the appropriate way in responding to the court decision on the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. We are doing that, and as we get to a conclusion—as I said, June 18 will be the date—we'll have more information for you.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

You promised that the project would begin construction before last summer. Still, there's not a single shovel in the ground. When will construction begin on the Trans Mountain project?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

I'm happy to continue answering the same question with the same response.

We've set out to follow the court direction and to ensure that we do that in a way that meaningfully engages indigenous peoples and other people concerned with this project.

We are going through that. I believe it's a robust process that, as we've said publicly, will conclude in time for us to bring a decision to cabinet on June 18.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

When will cabinet announce its decision?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

As I just identified, we are going through a process and will—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

On what date? I just need the date. That's all.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Perhaps there is an acoustic problem—I'm not sure. We're coming to that conclusion on June 18.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

You'll announce on the 19th or the 20th of June?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

For clarity, we're going through a process that will culminate in a cabinet decision on June 18. That will be the time period during which we'll be able to communicate to Canadians what our conclusion was.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Wow. We will get a decision on the Trans Mountain pipeline on June 18. Your counterpart, Minister Sohi, has said there might not be a decision before the election, but you're confirming there will be. Is it yes or no?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

What I am confirming, as I have just said, is that the process that we've been going through will lead us to a cabinet discussion on—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

A discussion.... Will the decision be announced before the election, yes or no?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

I expect that on June 18 we'll be able to provide you with more information because we're going through a process—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

A decision...?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

As I said, we're going through a process that will lead us to a—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Sorry. You bought the thing a year ago. You promised that construction would begin immediately. You said at the very latest it would start last summer. It hasn't started. I've asked you five times already when the construction will begin. You can't give an answer and now you can't even tell us when you'll publicly reveal your decision on whether it's going to go ahead—ever.

Can you understand why Canadians are a little worried that, after you put $4.5 billion of their money at stake and cancelled two other pipelines, you just might have engaged in a monstrous boondoggle here?