Evidence of meeting #213 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was newspapers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Okay.
I'm going to stop on prompt payment, because I've read enough.
Mr. Marshall, I want to clarify something you said. You believe the government should legislate that people only purchase electric vehicles.
6:05 p.m.
Manager, National Climate Program, Environmental Defence Canada
No. We should legislate that the vehicle manufacturers themselves reach sales targets for electric vehicles. That by 2025, for example, 25% of the vehicle sales in Canada should be electric, and you increase that percentage over time until you reach the government's target of 100% electric vehicle sales in 2040.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
I will continue along the same lines as my NDP colleague. It is rare for Conservatives and New Democrats to be on the same side when it comes to the “media buyout”.
Ms. St-Onge and Mr. Tremblay, the bill provides that the government will designate the entity that will decide which organizations will benefit from the tax credits, but this entity is not specified. When officials from the Department of Finance appeared before the committee, we asked them if cabinet could be that entity.
You told us that the FNC had not really looked into the subject. If the cabinet or a highly politicized group were this entity, would that prevent the press from defending itself when people say it cannot be independent because of the tax credits given to this sector?
6:10 p.m.
President, Fédération nationale des communications
We have not thought about any particular mechanism. An appeal mechanism could be an interesting avenue. If an enterprise that believes it meets the objective criteria is denied a tax credit, it should have access to an appeal mechanism. However, we have not made any specific recommendations on this matter.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Personally, I think the FNC should address this issue, since it represents people in the field.
Mr. Tremblay, did you want to add something?
6:10 p.m.
Louis Tremblay Vice-President, Fédération nationale des communications
Yes, thank you.
People seem to give considerable weight to public perceptions of any government assistance provided to news organizations or newsrooms.
I work at Le Quotidien, a newspaper that's part of Groupe Capitales Médias, in Chicoutimi. We received $10 million in funding from Investissement Québec to help the company get through the crisis.
In Quebec, Pierre Karl Péladeau was outraged by the situation. However, I can tell you that not a single one of the 200 journalists at Groupe Capitales Médias, who are located in six regions of Quebec, has received an email questioning the group's credibility or claiming that it had been bought by the government. No issues were raised in this area. Journalists have been fighting for years for press freedom and quality information. We're not going to let the government guide our work.
The Government of Quebec has implemented a general program for the digital transition. The federal bill is based on the criteria set out in the Quebec program. No one has made a public fuss and said that the program is about helping the media.
I challenge everyone to look back at the latest election campaign in Quebec. I encourage you to check whether journalists from Quebec newspapers, such as La Presse or Groupe Capitales Médias newspapers, influenced the political coverage of the Couillard government. There was no influence. These people were treated like all the members of other political parties.
In Quebec, Groupe Capitales Médias ended up being singled out by Mr. Péladeau. In fact, Mr. Péladeau is taking legal action against the Government of Quebec over the assistance provided to us. In any case, as far as we're concerned, we could send you the contents of all the inboxes of our 200 journalists. You wouldn't find a single email indicating that the public is outraged by this assistance. It's time to stop inventing things that don't exist in the real world.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
The bill contains some provisions that specify the types of media companies that will qualify for assistance.
From what I can see, this tax credit is the only tax credit that would be handled by an independent group, outside the Canada Revenue Agency. In addition, Division 43(2)(a)(v)(B) states that the news content:
must not be primarily focused on a particular topic such as industry-specific news, sports, recreation, arts, lifestyle or entertainment,
As my NDP colleague said, we asked the officials whether criteria had been established, such as 25%, 20% or 15%. Normally, the criteria to qualify for tax credits are clearly set out in the legislation. In this case, this doesn't seem to have happened.
Department of Finance officials told our Senate colleagues today that there will be an A list of previously approved media companies that will qualify for tax credits. The public will have difficulty accepting that some media companies are entitled to special treatment by the government.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
I'm wondering whether the fact that the current draft of the bill contains this type of criteria will result in long-term issues.
6:15 p.m.
President, Fédération nationale des communications
The Government of Quebec used a different approach. It had already included all the criteria in the legislation, and there was no independent commission. In addition, to fall under the definition of general media, the media should, for example, regularly cover seven of the ten different topics that can be found in the news. Criteria of this nature are very objective, and we find them acceptable.
When it comes to the appearance of independence, the best way to ensure media independence is to have a variety of media and information. Right now in Quebec, and in my opinion, across Canada, we can see that, when groups compete, they also monitor each other.
I mean that the best way to ensure that the media remains independent is to have several media outlets that can do their job and that cover all the opinions and schools of thought found in our society. It would be terrible to see groups fall apart as a result of cash flow issues and major financial issues.
It would be terrible for press freedom and for our democratic debate. We're seeking to prevent this through the program. It's good to criticize and analyze the program, but we mustn't lose sight of our objective.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you all.
Mr. McLeod and Mr. Richards, if you want, we'll have time.
Mr. McLeod.
May 15th, 2019 / 6:15 p.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to everybody who's presented. You have all given very interesting presentations.
I want to focus on Environmental Defence Canada, and I want to thank you for coming to talk about climate change today. I don't think we can talk enough about it. I represent the north, and I see it first-hand every weekend, when I go home.
We already have forest fires burning in my part of the country. I live on the Mackenzie River and the water should be at fall levels instead of spring thaws. There's not much snow. So many things are changing. I drive on a road that is starting to be like a roller coaster because of the permafrost melting. It really brings a sense of urgency. For us, it's almost not fair because our part of the world is not developed yet and most of our communities don't have roads. Our greenhouse gas emissions are so small, but we're the ones being affected the most.
When I hear you say we have to do more to fight climate change, I'm just wondering if we can do enough. When we move forward, how do we make it work? How do we apply it fairly to all of the country? For us in the Northwest Territories, solar is not a good solution because half of the north is in darkness for a good many months. Wind is not a good option either because the props and everything else freeze up on us. When we start talking about nuclear, we've got a lot of concerns. We're starting to see improvements; mechanical batteries and graphite batteries are starting to improve.
We need to do more, but the big question is how do we get everybody to agree. How do we get everybody on the same page to move forward? As I said, even though we don't emit a lot of greenhouse gas, we're willing to do our share. We'd certainly love to get off diesel; we've committed to doing that. Anybody who has diesel generators would love to get off diesel. They're noisy, they're smelly and they're not reliable. I want to know how we get everybody on the same page. Will it be when we hit a crisis point, or can we get an agreement before then?
6:15 p.m.
Manager, National Climate Program, Environmental Defence Canada
Your question is my job. I wish I had the answer.
6:15 p.m.
Manager, National Climate Program, Environmental Defence Canada
I feel for the people being affected by climate change. That's why I work on climate change.
In terms of getting people on board with respect to different regions of the country, each of those places will know better than me what the solutions are in terms of adaptation and mitigation. There's a whole bunch of knowledge there that people can seize. You will know more about what the solutions are in Northwest Territories than I would.
I think we're at a crisis point. That's why we're communicating what the world scientists are saying in terms of...we're documenting what people are experiencing. What we're experiencing in Canada in terms of inequality and the impacts of climate change is a microcosm of what we're seeing in the world. Those who are least responsible for the problem are the ones who are most impacted, first and heaviest. Getting people on board is... I do this every day. We try to raise the profile. We try to point to the science. We try to point to the solutions and to the fact that there are all kinds of co-benefits in terms of health and economic benefits that Canada can seize upon if we actually took up some...and moved forward a bit more dramatically than we have been.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
I think when we talk about adaptation, we don't have all of the research, we don't have all the answers; there are so many questions still out there. I would expect, and I expect that you'd agree, that there's no one-size-fits-all.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
When you say we should introduce legislation for electric cars in all parts of Canada, that puts me in a panic. Electric cars are going to be very expensive to run in the north. I've driven electric cars—they work. You can drive around in 40° below, but if there's ever an issue with repairs, it has to go back on the back of a semi-truck and be hauled all the way into Alberta or B.C. I think we have to be very careful when we come to some of those suggestions. It's not one-size-fits-all. We need everybody to be on board, and it won't happen if we don't have the proper adaptation program.
I don't think we have a solution even on how to fix our roads. I drive on roads that we just repaired last year for millions of dollars, and now they're slumping again. We have buildings that are falling because the technology we used for pilings, which was wood into the frozen ground, is now wet, and it's rotting the pilings.
6:20 p.m.
Manager, National Climate Program, Environmental Defence Canada
I have a couple of quick things.
First of all, obviously, I feel for all the impacts that are happening there. In terms of the specifics that I talked about with the ZEV mandate, the electric vehicle mandate, this would be a national target. Automakers can sell those vehicles in whatever region, whatever cities, whatever rural areas they want to, as long as they reach the target. It's not imposing 25% in the north; it's saying that this is a national target that vehicle manufacturers can meet and increase over time.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay. We'll leave it there.
I'll come to Mr. Richards for the last block of questions.
Mr. Keyes, I know there hasn't been a question targeted at you. I know you had some recommendations in your submission. Is there anything you want to say that you didn't have the opportunity to say before? Also, I'm not sure if Ms. Van Buren came in on a question or not.
Mr. Keyes, is there anything you want to add?
6:20 p.m.
Prof. John Mark Keyes
Perhaps I would emphasize that what we are recommending in our amendments is to basically explain in a little more detail what we think is largely implicit in the bill. Expand a little more on the responsibilities of the council and the advocate, and also create a process for a review panel that would be an additional function for the council to actually conduct inquiries and investigations into systemic housing issues.
Our proposals are to maintain the legislation as essentially a policy lever. It's about finding and investigating housing issues, looking for solutions to those issues, and putting forward recommendations to governments—and to the private sector, as well—to deal with those issues. That's really the gist of the amendments we're recommending.
6:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you.
If you want in, Ms. Van Buren, put your arm up.
We have Mr. Richards for the last round.
6:20 p.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
Thanks.
I want to go back to you, Mr. Marshall, on the suggestion you made about legislating electric cars. You had indicated the 25% was the initial percentage, and then ultimately trying to get to 100%.
I guess I'm still a little unclear on exactly what you're proposing there as well, so I'm looking for some clarity. It sounded like you were indicating at the manufacturer level. Now, obviously not all cars sold here in Canada are manufactured here. I guess the reverse is also true, that not all cars manufactured here would be sold here. What are you proposing exactly? Are you proposing that 25% of the cars made in Canada, and then ultimately 100%, would be electric cars? Is that what you're proposing?