Evidence of meeting #38 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airports.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brian Kingston  Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada
Scott Chamberlain  Director of Labour Relations, General Counsel, Association of Canadian Financial Officers
Brian Emmett  Chief Economist, Canada's Charitable and Nonprofit Sector, Imagine Canada
Monique Moreau  Director, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Laurell Ritchie  Co-chair, Inter-Provincial EI Working Group
Pierre Cadieux  Vice President, Federal and Quebec Governmental Relations, Restaurants Canada
Daniel-Robert Gooch  President, Canadian Airports Council
William Miller  President, Canadian Association of Radiologists
Carl Weatherell  Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mining Innovation Council
Sahir Khan  Executive Vice-President, Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy
Jean Robitaille  Senior Vice-President, Agnico Eagle Mines Limited, Canada Mining Innovation Council
Nicholas Neuheimer  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Association of Radiologists

6:15 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

All right.

6:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy

Sahir Khan

There's an important opportunity this year for the budget. Measures have to be reflected in the reports on plans and priorities. Last year, for example, after the budget was tabled, a historic investment in infrastructure...parliamentarians were still working with essentially obsolete reports on plans and priorities, so ensuring that they have the right content, first of all, is really important, and there's an opportunity today.

I think it also goes back to the message I made earlier, which was that it's important for parliamentarians to receive the information the same way the government manages its resources. If it's highly aggregated or in a different accounting language—cash versus accrual—or with high-level votes, and you're not actually voting on the program activities, you're voting on a high-level vote structure, there isn't a lot of incentive for people within the government to manage on that basis and report to you on that basis. Ideally, you're getting a report on plans and priorities that is outlining the government's spending plan for the year.

Then you have quarterly financial reports that come out and tell you whether they're on track. Then the departmental performance report is produced soon after the end of the fiscal year to let you know how they did. Right now the DPR is produced far later. You get public accounts some 200 days after the end of the fiscal year, so you're appropriating money in main estimates for the following year without having the public accounts tabled for the prior year. We have a lot of these—the reporting and the management when these documents are tabled—out of sync right now, and at the level of aggregation.

Our advice is that you have control gates because you're voting on program activity. If the information isn't coming to you, then it's a serious problem for somebody because they're having to manage those program activities within the government. If you're not getting the variances on budget or on performance measures, you have very good lines of inquiry when they come to committee. But once you're voting on that basis, they have to manage on that basis. That's the fundamental opportunity for change in the estimates reform proposed by the government.

6:20 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

It could also result in better understanding of the work we do in committee and what the government also does in relation to the departments. We would be able to work from the same bases.

As parliamentarians, we are not ministers. For all of us, it is a little difficult to make the correlation between the needs and the work being done in the departments under the budgets allocated by the government, by the committees, and by us, the members who examine these budgetary allocations.

6:20 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy

Sahir Khan

It becomes more and more difficult.

For example, in the case of a department like National Defence where there is a lot of capital, funds are managed on the basis of an amortization period of 20 or 30 or 40 years.

However, in your case, everything is in cash. These are current expenses that are being considered. So there is a lack of synchronization between the two accounting methods and that is where the problem lies.

6:20 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I would also put to you the way things are done in Quebec.

6:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I'm going to cut it off there. We have two more on the list.

Mr. Ouellette.

6:20 p.m.

Liberal

Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB

Thank you very much.

Thank you all for your submissions. They were very interesting and good reading before going bed at night, so I appreciate it.

I realize this might be an unusual question, but nonetheless I will proceed. From your field of expertise, I was wondering if you would be able to offer your thoughts on what your organization is doing concerning indigenous peoples and if you feel you have the capacity.

What should the government or even your organization be doing concerning the indigenous peoples in Canada? It's a general question.

6:20 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Agnico Eagle Mines Limited, Canada Mining Innovation Council

Jean Robitaille

With regard to innovation itself, I don't want to repeat myself, but I'll again look at the Nunavut platform. It's a good example. We need to innovate for energy, for infrastructure. There are other ways than building roads. There are other ways to accomplish what has to be accomplished. In the specific example of Nunavut, they have aboriginal people, and currently, in the company I'm working for, we create a lot of wealth.

You'll see the same thing in other regions. I see true innovation in what we're trying to accomplish. You'll be able to open those territories and you'll be able to create wealth. In this specific example, it's not just lower-level jobs we are speaking about. In our own company, where we are investing substantially in innovation, each of our mines is operated and managed by the people from the country. In Quebec the general manager is from Quebec. In Finland they are from Finland. In Mexico they are from Mexico. In Nunavut our wish is to bring the management in with people, so this is one angle you will see.

As well, when we speak about the footprint, when we speak about water, and when we speak about energy, that will directly touch the aboriginal people.

Do you want to add something?

6:20 p.m.

Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mining Innovation Council

Carl Weatherell

Perhaps I could take 30 seconds. It's a great question.

A key element of what we're doing, as I mentioned before, is open innovation. It's not just about the mining sector, it's about other sectors as well. We're reaching out to aboriginal businesses already. We've talked to some aboriginal businesses to see if the technology or the solutions they have could potentially fit under the towards zero waste strategy. So that's going on.

Potentially we could have transferable skills, not just mining-related skills. They could be relevant to ICT or to other sectors of the economy instead of being service-related sectors for mining in sunset-type scenarios.

6:25 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy

Sahir Khan

I would add that there are several tangible things that we'd like to do at our new institute with the aboriginal community. In particular, we'd like to develop a training program in financial management. It would partner financial officers in aboriginal communities with our partners in the accounting profession and with the Financial Management Institute, which serves public sector financial officers, to help build capacity for greater performance budgeting opportunities for new funds that are available to aboriginal communities.

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB

How do you then...? For instance, under the Indian Act, as a chief you could fire any person on the reserve at any moment. You could fire teachers. You could fire the entire school, if you liked. Then you could appoint people to be in those positions who might or might not be qualified. Some are often very qualified.

How do you then go about ensuring that if you train someone to be a qualified civil servant, they will actually be able to stay in that position in the long term?

6:25 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy

Sahir Khan

We understand that capacity building is a slow process. What we want to do is to have financial officers on first nations communities actually partnered with professionals, with members who are part of the Financial Management Institute and part of the accounting profession, so that they actually have external resources to not just build on their professional skills but also have mentorship on how they manage within their organizations.

This is a small contribution that our small public finance institute can make. The approach we are taking with public servants on improving financial management capacity is the same one we'd now like to see within aboriginal communities. We've had discussions with a number of groups to do this.

The second thing we're trying to promote now, as part of the innovation agenda, is—

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I have to let Mr. Bittle in here.

You get one question, Mr. Bittle.

If people want to answer on both, they can. That's the only way we can handle it.

We're out of time, Chris.

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

That's fine.

Specifically to the Canadian Mining Innovation Council, do you have a target for greenhouse gas reductions with your plan?

6:25 p.m.

Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mining Innovation Council

Carl Weatherell

We don't have a specific target for greenhouse gas emissions, no.

6:25 p.m.

Senior Vice-President, Agnico Eagle Mines Limited, Canada Mining Innovation Council

Jean Robitaille

However, we have four specific areas, and energy is one component. It's obvious that we will touch that.

On the question about aboriginals, for one mine we are investing $5.6 million per year in its development. So this is not fake. This is true at Meadowbank. Imagine the multiples you'd have with more development, with more mines able to move forward.

Thank you.

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay, we are at the end of our time frame. I thank people for their presentations today. I also appreciate the briefs that they've sent in—those who did—by early August. Thank you for your time today.

For committee members, we will see you in Kelowna, B.C., on Monday.

6:25 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Bon voyage, everyone.

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I guess you're not coming.

The meeting is adjourned.