Finance Committee on Feb. 8th, 2017

[Gary Mauris]

If that happens, all you're going to have is the big five chartered banks in the country, and you're going to have devastation among monoline lenders and credit unions in the country. You're going to take away the entire focus around free trade and the competitive nature. By doing that, you'd actually be favouring a monopoly—a government-favoured monopoly—in the country.

Just so you know, in 1987 it was CMHC and the government that realized we were having these deep compressions and difficulty around the competitive landscape. In fact, that's when they came out and developed new lending criteria and gave additional lenders the ability to insure mortgage loans so that there were other alternatives for funding.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Sure, but it certainly would be prudent, Mr. Chair, that since we're using taxpayer dollars to support that competition that we then support and limit risk in those insurances to those higher-risk borrowers who have high levels of debt, to ensure that their investment—

[Gary Mauris]

Yes—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Sorry, but I didn't have a question yet.

It's to ensure that those investments are actually protected in an industry, to ensure the competition can continue. You can't have one without the other, so remember, we're using taxpayers' money here.

My last question to you, sir, is where is the evidence—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Keep it quick if you can, Jen.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Thank you.

Where is the evidence that you have, and if you have it, could you submit it to the committee? Where's the evidence you have that people have actually been pushed out of the market?

[Gary Mauris]

I can give you hundreds and hundreds of letters, emails, and phone calls; I mean, more than a hundred. Every month people are writing to us to say they can no longer qualify but they are close.

There were two teachers. They had been saving for five or six years. They finally got to a point where they had a down payment to qualify. Then all of a sudden these rule changes came in and the mortgage amount they thought they were going to qualify for was no longer available to them. They couldn't qualify, so they had a choice, which was, “I can't live in the city where I actually go to work and raise my kids and where our children go to school, so I have to move 30, 40, or 50 kilometres out or I won't get into the housing market at all.”

I want to make one point—

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I want to clarify.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We're going to have to cut it here.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

I just want to know if he's saying that they were pushed out or were just not qualifying for the amount they thought they would, because my question was about being pushed out of the market completely. That was his statement. [

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If you want to answer that in this next round of questions, go ahead, Mr. Mauris.

Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the heart of your Parliament.

I will continue in English. It's all right with me.

First of all, before asking you any questions, gentlemen and madam, I want to say that I'm very pleased to see how cautious our colleagues from the government are, and so prudent, when they talk about debt and limiting the risk, while this government, if nothing changes, will go to a debt of $1.5 trillion in 2050. So what is good for Canadians will not be good for the Canadian government, and we have to be very concerned with that.

Gentlemen and madam, I have a question for every one of you. Were you consulted before the call of the minister in October?

[Gary Simonsen]

No, we were not consulted.

[Gary Mauris]

No, we were not.

[Katherine McDowell]

No.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

When were you informed and how were you informed of the call of the minister?

[Katherine McDowell]

It was by email.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'm sorry?

[Katherine McDowell]

It was via email and media.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Was it an email from the minister or from...?

[Katherine McDowell]

It was sent out from CMHC.

[Adil Mawji, Vice-President, Alberta Mortgage Brokers Association]

It was communicated to the broker industry through an email to the industry.

[Gary Mauris]

Most stakeholders in the Canadian housing market—realtors associations, monoline lenders, the two secondary insurers in Canada, and the large distribution networks were notified via the media announcement.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

How were you notified, Mr. Simonsen?

[Gary Simonsen]

We were notified the same way.