Finance Committee on April 4th, 2017

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Premier, for coming here today. I very much appreciate it.

I'd like to correct the record, though. I don't think we should actually say Métis versus aboriginal, because in fact Métis people are aboriginal people as well, under the Canadian constitution. That's just the nature of who they are. They are also indigenous people.

I was just wondering, Mr. Premier, if you could talk about the Mackenzie highway and the importance of the transportation and infrastructure that you need in order to develop your region and your territory economically.

[Robert R. McLeod]

The highway system is very critical to the existence of the north, because it provides all of the services. The Mackenzie Valley highway, for example, right now is a winter road system, so for maybe two months of the year we can drive into the isolated communities in the Sahtu. It allows people to drive in and out. They can buy their own groceries, building supplies, and what have you, and that reduces the costs significantly.

It's similar for bringing fuel into the communities. If you can bring it in by winter road, then.... It would be a lot better with an all-weather road, because you wouldn't have to worry about breakup, freeze up, and those kinds of things, or having to fly in most of your basics. Infrastructure is very critical. It allows for economic development and it also reduces the cost of living for people in those affected communities.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Could we also assume, to a certain extent, Mr. Premier, that it would be attractive for people to have a road for their communities, that it would be something that would probably keep them in the region, if they could gain easy access in and out of their own communities to other communities?

[Robert R. McLeod]

That is my expectation. I think that communities along a road system are more stable. We are starting to see more and more that people in the isolated communities are moving to regional centres, which are more than likely to have all-weather road access.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. McLeod, could you discuss the ideas surrounding the hydro development that you are looking to do and its importance for electricity? I know there are a lot of groups that don't like hydro development, and there are some that do. What would this do? Why is this energy important?

[Robert R. McLeod]

In the Northwest Territories, we have significant hydro potential, on par with James Bay. We have legacy hydro projects in the north that were built for mining developments. For example, Taltson is one we've been talking about with the federal government. It is an existing hydro facility that was built to provide power for Pine Point, which was a community built in conjunction with a lead-zinc mine. When the mine shut down, they tore the community down, but they still have a hydro facility that generates about 18 megawatts of power. What we're talking about is that, if we are going to go to a low-carbon economy, we can build an expansion to Taltson and export power to, say, Saskatchewan or Alberta, and we can use those revenues to invest in other areas to convert other communities as well.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I just have one very short final question.

Could you talk a little about indigenous languages in the Northwest Territories? I know there's been some controversy in certain northern regions surrounding language.

Could you talk a bit about what the Northwest Territories is doing to support not only the official languages

French and English, our two national languages, but also aboriginal languages?

[Robert R. McLeod]

We used to speak Michif at home.

As I said, we have 11 official languages. Some of the members of our legislative assembly, not so much now but over the years, were fluent in their aboriginal languages, and they had arranged for translation services. It's been very difficult for a government to work to preserve those languages. We've taken a number of different approaches. I think now we've given the responsibility back to the aboriginal governments. Along with the funding we have an aboriginal languages unit, and we also have a French language unit.

I'm very pleased that the federal government has seen fit to increase funding for aboriginal languages. We just signed a new seven-year contract with the Government of Canada whereby funding for aboriginal languages has increased significantly. I think that gives us more hope that we'll be able to save those aboriginal languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, both.

The premier has to leave about 12:15 or 12:20, and I'd like to give Mr. Tootoo the last round.

Mr. Deltell is next, and I believe Ms. O'Connell has given her time to Mr. Bagnell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would be very pleased to let my colleague Mr. Tootoo have the time.

Premier, you're welcome in your House of Commons. It's a great honour for me and for all of us to see you here.

I want to raise the issue of the Beaufort Delta.

If you don't mind I will speak in my native tongue.

In your document, you vigorously denounce the unilateral Government of Canada imposition of a five-year moratorium on oil and gas exploration in the Beaufort Sea, which you say hurts you directly. It hurts you first in terms of rights, and it also affects economic development.

Could you explain your position on this?

[Robert R. McLeod]

You have to recognize that there was significant oil and gas activity in the Beaufort Delta back in Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau's days. There were significant incentives whereby, if you spent a dollar, 90% of that was subsidized. There was a lot of drilling activity in those days. People in the region invested money and were looking forward to benefiting from oil and gas development over the years and they're still hoping for that.

Work is bid on in the neighbourhood of $2.3 billion. The land claims that were negotiated with aboriginal governments also recognize that. We also had a devolution agreement where there was a legal commitment to negotiate offshore management of the Beaufort. Those were the kinds of things that were out there. Also, in the land claim with Inuvialuit was a requirement for consultation and that didn't happen either.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Could climate change, and the fact that we may soon see vessels more often on the high seas of the Canadian North, have a direct impact on the development of oil resources in the territories?

[Robert R. McLeod]

As you know a lot more cruise ships are going through with the Northwest Passage being open much longer. I think the most we've ever had is about 75 cruise ships in the northern part of Canada. A joint study was done with Alberta on pipelines. If you can't go north, east, or west, perhaps you could look at north. The study concluded that it was feasible and that you could export on a regular basis at some point. You would obviously need some icebreaker support and some more infrastructure developed in Tuktoyaktuk and some of the other places up and down the valley. The potential is there. It could be done but that remains to be seen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Premier, welcome, and thank you very much for attending here today. I'm going to give my time over to Mr. Bagnell.

Thank you.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

I'd like to thank the Parliamentary Secretary, Ms. Petitpas Taylor. She came north last week and did a round table on education. The three colleges are putting together an application to help people when they get out of high school—it's about $60 million, I think—to get to the next level to apprenticeship, to professions, to university.

Could you talk about whether you're supportive of that and the importance of education in your economic development?

[Robert R. McLeod]

Obviously, education is one of the highest, if not the highest, priorities for our government. For people in the smaller communities, education is a way to allow them to gain marketable skills. We do have a very good student financial assistance program, but we don't have any universities, for example, so we're not able to access the billions of dollars that are available in universities in the south, and all these centres of excellence.

We do have a community college, Aurora College, and we are doing a review of the college and its programs. There are at least two other institutions that are looking to get accreditation so that they can access funding. We think it's very important—apprenticeship programs and all of these different educational programs. We would certainly like to see a university of the north, preferably in the Northwest Territories, at some point.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you. I'll ask one more question, but it will have three parts, so it will probably use up all the time.

First, we haven't talked about arts yet. In my territory it's a very important part of the economy. I'd appreciate if if you could talk about that.

Second, do you have any needs related to airports and ports?

[Robert R. McLeod]

Certainly, in the Northwest Territories art is very important. I know many people, many households, rely on arts to make a living and survive, even our own. When I was growing up, my mother was very big on arts. She made a lot of money doing moose hair tufting. These are the kinds of programs that our government likes to support, because we know that money goes directly to the people and stays in the communities. We support trapping, the arts, and all the artisans. We try to make it easier for them by making materials available. We even have business loans that they can access. We also work with them to develop markets

Airports are very important to us. They are very concerned about the additional requirements that are being put on airports, the length of the runways, and the types of aircraft that can land and so on. They are critical to the health of a community.

Regarding ports, we would certainly like a port. We don't have a port in the Northwest Territories and we think that if we had a port, it would certainly improve and help diversify our economy. Now that we have a road to Tuktoyaktuk, we think Tuktoyaktuk would be a good place to have a port.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both.

Mr. Tootoo, welcome.

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good to see you again, Premier McLeod. I see there are two Mr. McLeods here—clan McLeod.

I have three questions that I will try to get through. You mentioned, along with Nunavut and the Yukon, sitting down and coming to a mutual agreement with the federal government in relation to carbon pricing. I think all three of us understand and recognize the uniqueness of the circumstances of the north, which is totally reliant on diesel and already hitting the highest cost of living in the country. Would your goal be to look at coming to some kind of agreement that would mean that for all the territories, this would be a cost-neutral exercise?

[Robert R. McLeod]

That's something we've talked to the Government of Canada about. We've all agreed that we'd work together to make sure that we understood what the implications of an introduction of a carbon pricing mechanism would be before we would introduce it. I think that gives us some flexibility. There is a lot of concern, for example, with the diamond mines in the north. There's been a suggestion that if we introduce a carbon tax without some investigation of the implications, it might shorten the life of these mature mines. We've been given assurance that any revenues from a carbon tax would stay in the north, stay in the jurisdiction. Perhaps there's some flexibility there.

As I said, we are consulting with all of the communities, all of the industry sectors, so that we will have a very good idea of what the implications would be when we look at doing so.

[Hunter Tootoo, Independent, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you, Premier.

The second question I have affects all three territories similarly.

These national formulas that you mentioned on a per capita funding basis historically haven't worked for us, for all three territories. With the huge infrastructure deficit, the low level of services and health outcomes with health care funding and things like that, do you think that these national formulas don't work for the territories and that the government needs to look at thinking outside the box and outside these national formulas in dealing with the unique circumstances of the north?

[Robert R. McLeod]

I think that would be helpful. I think the government is doing that in the health care system; there are specific provisions for the three territories.

I think on not only the infrastructure side but also, for example, on-reserve and off-reserve funding for housing and so on, a lot of times we lose out because we don't have reserves and we do have status or treaty Indians who live in the Northwest Territories. Those are the kinds of things that we are concerned about. This is something that we constantly raise. I think that our members of Parliament do a good job of making sure that the government of the day is aware of these subtle differences. It's important for us because we're a small jurisdiction and we have to keep a very close eye on our budgets.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

This is your last question, Mr. Tootoo.