Evidence of meeting #95 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pbo.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Glenn Campbell  Assistant Deputy Minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Matt de Vlieger  Acting Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Karine Paré  Executive Director, Cost Management, Finance Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Duncan Shaw  Director, Employment Insurance Part II Benefits & Measures, Employment Programs Policy & Design, Skills & Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Trevor McGowan  Senior Legislative Chief, Legislative Review, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Jenna Robbins  Chief, Employment and Education Section, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Mathieu Bourgeois  Tax Policy Advisor, Sales Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Michèle Govier  Chief, Trade Rules, International Trade Policy Division, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance
Allen Sutherland  Assistant Secretary, Machinery of Government, Privy Council Office
Don Booth  Director, Strategic Policy, Privy Council Office

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Gudie Hutchings Liberal Long Range Mountains, NL

Okay.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Do you have any other questions, Gudie?

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Gudie Hutchings Liberal Long Range Mountains, NL

No.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Does anyone else have any questions?

Go ahead, Mr. Albas.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

A lot of these agreements do require labour market agreements with the provinces. Do these changes force the government to sign new ones, or is it within the discretion of the government to work within the existing agreements right now?

4:20 p.m.

Director, Employment Insurance Part II Benefits & Measures, Employment Programs Policy & Design, Skills & Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Duncan Shaw

Once the EI Act gets amended through the budget implementation act, the government, in order both to extend the new funds announced in the federal budget and to also then have the new eligibility in each province and territory, will need to sign amendments to those labour market development agreements.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Okay. Even though the legislative authority is there, there still is a lot of process to go through before the funds actually are delivered.

4:20 p.m.

Director, Employment Insurance Part II Benefits & Measures, Employment Programs Policy & Design, Skills & Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Duncan Shaw

That's right. We'll be going into negotiations with each province and territory over the next few months, with the hope of signing next fall.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Thank you.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Did I get it right? For upgrading skills and training, will it now cover both those who are unemployed and those who are employed?

4:20 p.m.

Director, Employment Insurance Part II Benefits & Measures, Employment Programs Policy & Design, Skills & Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Duncan Shaw

The distinction is that there still needs to be a connection between the contribution of premiums to the EI Act, the paying of premiums, and training. If someone has contributed premiums in five of the last 10 years, they'll be eligible for training for the employment benefits, but there's another measure, employment assistance services, which are basically job counselling, job finding, and job search. That's going to be both for people who are unemployed, which is the existing definition, and for people employed in the future, on April 1, 2018.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

If the negotiations go well....

4:20 p.m.

Director, Employment Insurance Part II Benefits & Measures, Employment Programs Policy & Design, Skills & Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay.

Mr. Fergus, go ahead.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Shaw, in your response, you spoke of people who contributed for five of the last 10 years. Is it five years or five months?

4:20 p.m.

Director, Employment Insurance Part II Benefits & Measures, Employment Programs Policy & Design, Skills & Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Duncan Shaw

Five years.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Okay. Thank you.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I have another question. Is there any cost analysis on this, as to what it's going to cost the employment insurance fund for these new changes?

4:20 p.m.

Director, Employment Insurance Part II Benefits & Measures, Employment Programs Policy & Design, Skills & Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Duncan Shaw

There's not a particular cost analysis because the labour market development agreements are a budget allocation. Each province has an allocation each year, and they make their own decisions on who is eligible for their own programs. They're not federal programs. Under the federal budget, there was a $1.8-billion increase announced for the next six years. Provinces and territories will get that on top of the current $2.1 billion, but it's up to them how they increase the coverage for their citizens. With the existing amount, they already need to ration training and employment services, so now with this expanded eligibility, they'll be able to broaden the coverage for their citizens.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Are there any other questions?

Thank you both for your presentation and for answering the questions. Again, my apologies for your having had to come before, probably, three times, and never getting to the table.

4:25 p.m.

Director, Employment Insurance Part II Benefits & Measures, Employment Programs Policy & Design, Skills & Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Duncan Shaw

Thanks very much.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I believe that ends all our divisions, so we can start on Bill C-44, the budget implementation act.

We will ask officials to come to the table. There are quite a number of officials here from Finance and other departments. If members have questions for officials at any time on any of these clauses, fire away.

Welcome and thank you, folks, for coming.

We will postpone clause 1, the short title, until we complete clause-by-clause.

On part 1, amendments to the Income Tax Act and to related legislation, we are looking at clauses 2 to 34. I would note there are no amendments to clauses 2 to 22. We would need unanimous consent to group clauses 2 to 22.

Do we have unanimous consent to group them? This will happen several times. No? You want to go through them one by one, Pierre.

(Clauses 2 to 5 agreed to on division sequentially)

(On clause 6)

Mr. Dusseault, the floor is yours.

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

I have a problem with clause 6.

On the one hand, this clause refers to payments to Canadian Forces members and veterans. On the other hand, subclause 6(3) refers to payments to members of legislative assemblies and to municipal officers. The goal of subclause 6(3) is to eliminate the tax exemption for municipal officers and members of provincial legislative assemblies.

It's a shame that these two components are grouped together in the same clause, meaning clause 6. You're asking us to support or reject clause 6. In doing so, you're asking us to vote the same way on two completely different things. I have a problem with this.

I simply want to specify that I was in favour of the first part of clause 6, but not in favour of subclause 6(3), which eliminates the tax exemption for elected officials of the legislative assemblies and for municipal officials. Since these two components were grouped together, as a parliamentarian, I can't address each of them separately.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Do you have any questions for officials, Mr. Dusseault? Have you made your point?

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

I understand the components of this clause very well. I don't think the witnesses, whom I want to thank for being here, can shed more light on the matter. I'll need to vote against this clause, unfortunately.