I do not believe so.
Evidence of meeting #96 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #96 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
I do not believe so.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Does the Conflict of Interest Act apply to the people who are appointed to the board of directors or who are running the infrastructure bank?
9:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
The Conflict of Interest Act applies to the board and any appointee by the Governor in Council, and then the crown corporation has to follow best practices in terms of conflict of interest and all provisions, as any other corporation would.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Can you give a bit of an indication about the process that led to the development of this legislation and, specifically, who actually wrote this legislation? Did BlackRock write this legislation?
9:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
I've been in charge of this project for almost six months, and I've had no engagement with that firm whatsoever.
Let me go back. The government consulted with perhaps hundreds of stakeholders from the infrastructure community, including the financial community, the debt and investment side; municipalities and provinces and territories; and with all variety of others prior to the announcement in the fall economic update. Between the fall economic update and the budget, there were even deeper consultations with strata of various parts of the infrastructure ecosystem, including those in the federal-provincial-municipal system.
Following the budget, I as an official led the coordination of the drafting of the legislation in concert with the government. We used all available resources inside the Government of Canada, and drew on hundreds of inputs from various stakeholders in shaping this legislation that led to the government's decision.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
One final question. Are you a politician, or can you just give me a bit of your background? You're not a politician, I suppose.
9:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
I am a senior official, a technocrat, if you will, with extensive background in government and in financial services, banking, and investment.
9:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
I am, indeed, and proud of it.
9:45 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Just a very quick question. How many years of experience do you have in the bureaucracy?
9:45 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Twenty-five years.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Just for the record, Mr. Campbell is assistant deputy minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office.
Thank you, both.
Is there any further discussion on NDP-24?
A recorded vote has been called for.
(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 1)
Still on clause 403, we have NDP-25.
Mr. Dusseault.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
Mr. Chair, my amendment seeks to delete lines 9 to 12 on page 241, in order to allow the appointment of elected officials to the bank's board of directors. That would make the bank more accountable to Canadians.
It's a good thing for the public to have a seat on the board. That's what I want to see happen. At the very least, the public should have a representative on the board of directors, whether it be a member of civil society or a department official. The purpose of having that person there is to make sure that public money—in other words, the $35 billion being invested in this bank—is spent appropriately, in a manner that respects taxpayers' ability to pay and does not unduly favour private firms.
Canadians are used to paying their taxes every year. They all work hard to make ends meet and hand over a big chunk of their hard-earned money to the government. It goes without saying, then, that that money must be managed responsibly. Thirty-five billion dollars is a massive amount of public money, so the bank's board should have at least one person to represent the public's interests and ensure the appropriate scrutiny. Otherwise, the bank's entire board of directors and all of its officers are likely to be on the same team, so to speak, working to serve their own interests and line their own pockets, not the public's.
My amendment would correct that flaw.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
You pretty near missed it.
A recorded vote, Madam Clerk.
(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 1)
Next is NDP-26, I believe.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
Mr. Chair, I am continuing along the same lines by once more stressing how important it is for the public to be able to verify. In this case, it is a matter of changing one sentence in the bill for another sentence saying that the bank must receive the concurrence of the designated minister. The amendment seeks to increase the obligation to be accountable on the part of the minister responsible for this bank, who will probably be the designated Minister of Infrastructure and Communities.
The goal is to make the minister more accountable for everything that the infrastructure bank will do, and for potential failures. We want the legislation to clearly and precisely give parliamentarians the assurance that the minister is accountable to Parliament and that the bank's actions reflect that accountability. In the event of a failure, or any other situation—such as money being improperly spent, or put into the pockets of influential Liberals, to recall a time when the Liberal Party was looking after its friends—the minister with responsibility for this bank must be accountable to Canadians. We want to avoid a situation whereby the minister can say that the bank is independent, that he has nothing to do with it, that its leaders can do what they like, and that he washes his hands of it.
The danger to which we are exposed and that we are on the lookout for is that the minister can completely wash his hands of everything that goes on in the bank. My amendment seeks to give him a little more responsibility and oversight, and thereby to improve the accountability for the actions of the bank.
I ask for a recorded vote.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Is there any discussion on this point?
Okay, we shall have a recorded vote on NDP-26.
(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 1)
We're still on clause 403, and now have NDP-27.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
Mr. Chair, this amendment is along the same lines. So I will not spend so much time on it.
This is about requiring the bank to submit plans for the project to the designated minister who may, with the concurrence of the Minister of Finance, recommend it for approval to the Governor in Council.
The objective is to make the government responsible for the expenses that the bank commits to, and, in cases of improper authority, dubious financing, or when projects end in complete failure or turn into white elephants—something we have previously seen here in Canada—the ministers are required to be accountable for it and they cannot decline all responsibility using the arguments that we have heard so many times: this is a crown corporation, it is free to do what it wants, we are not responsible, the corporation makes its own decisions, and the government plays no role.
This provision will give Canadians the assurance that the government is responsible for the actions of the bank, because infrastructure projects will have to obtain the concurrence and approval of the Governor in Council.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I have a question for the officials, Mr. Chair.
I'd appreciate your expertise on this. When the bank is created and becomes a crown corporation, it will probably operate like other crown corporations, with the debt being reported on their books and not in the public accounts specifically. Is that correct?
9:55 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Canada Infrastructure Bank Transition Office, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
No, it's not correct.
It will be a consolidated crown; therefore, its net liabilities will be reflected in the financial statements of the Government of Canada. More specifically, any project for which it's deemed to have federal support—or under market support—would be counted against that $15 billion profile that's transparently set out in budget 2017.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
So every year, parliamentarians will be able to scrutinize that as part of the overall picture. Is that correct?