Evidence of meeting #12 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was finance.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay.
The amendment is in order. Is there any discussion on changing the word “welfare” to “subsidies”?
Mr. McLean.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
I don't think we're going to oppose that, but I would like us to make sure that we define what corporate subsidies are. I'd like to make sure that it is everything, all the positive things, that Mr. Sorbara so eloquently spoke of for an exhaustive amount of time. It is very much the tax credits and the SR and ED and everything else that allocates money between different industries and between different sectors and between different parts of this country. All of those should be as transparent as possible.
If this includes a blanket definition of what represents government “subsidies”, including tax credits, grants, investments, loans, etc., and if we can agree on the exhaustiveness of that, then we're fine with that change.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Greg McLean Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
I'm really concerned by what I saw in the House. Mr. Chair, I'm new to this job, but last week I did see the government dance around what was a subsidy versus what was a grant, and it was shocking. I want to make sure, then, that we're clear here that we're talking about the government's spending with corporations and that this spending includes tax credits and tax expenditures, so that everything is on the table and we're transparent about this.
Mr. Sorbara, you can fully imagine that any study is not going to be straight black and white. Everything is going to be comparing what our jurisdictions do vis-à-vis what foreign jurisdictions do to attract the same sort of capital. You're right. It is a fluid world, and money is fungible, so we'll make sure that is very clear in the report. However, we do need to make sure everything is clearly understood by the Canadian people.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. McLean. Your comments are well respected and well heeded on my side. You obviously have an understanding of how the world economy works and how firms grow their businesses, invest and take risks day in, day out.
We, on our side, support small businesses across this country to turn them into larger businesses. That's why we cut the small business tax rate from 11% to 9%.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I'm getting there, Mr. Chair.
What I will say is that when sessions are allocated to this study and witnesses are called, you are obviously a party that will call its witnesses and ask the questions you see fit to ask.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay. You're basically suggesting that the word “subsidies” is pretty well all-encompassing.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Then that's understood.
Are there any other speakers on the amendment?
(Amendment agreed to)
Then, on the original motion, as amended, “That the Committee undertake a study on corporate subsidies”, I wonder if we could discuss timing. Can we do this study in the month of March? There are five meetings in March. We can put in more. Roughly how many witnesses do we want to go with? Do we have any idea around those parameters?
We do expect the budget.
If we can do it in March, that would be great.
Our regular schedule is 3:30 to 5:30, but we, as the finance committee, often extended that to other days.
Roughly how many witnesses would we want, if we could do it in March?
Peter.
5 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
I think, Mr. Chair, it would be better if we get this motion passed first. If we're going to be talking about witnesses, though, I think we should have a minimum of six meetings, which would take us through, as you say, until the end of March. Perhaps the members from the government side could give us an inkling of when they expect the budget to be coming up.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I don't think we know.
(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
If we are looking at six meetings in the month of March, roughly how many witnesses is that? Can we handle six witnesses a meeting? That would be 36 witnesses.
Sean.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Would that be two one-hour panels per meeting with three per panel?
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
It could be that way. That gives us something to work with.
Could parties have their witness lists to the clerk early next week, say Monday night? Is that too soon?
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thursday would never get them invited for the next week, though.
Could we have an initial list of, say, 10 by Monday night, with the remainder by Thursday, if you want to go with that, so that we can get the calls for the first week? Is that possible? That's an initial list of 10 from parties by Monday night and the remainder of names on their list by Thursday at six o'clock.
Is there any further discussion?
With that, thank you all.
The meeting is adjourned.
