Finance Committee on March 10th, 2020

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I appreciate Mr. Poilievre's intervention. That said, since we are talking about the Canada account, which is approved by the Minister for International Trade and the Minister of Finance, these are probably the two people who would be the most appropriate people to call in to answer these questions.

I'm going to go back to our witnesses and ask them questions about the grants.

What is the evaluation of the effectiveness of the subsidies given to companies, regardless of the agency you represent?

[Andrea Johnston, Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation Canada, Department of Industry]

Why don't I give an example of the strategic innovation fund? When an application comes in, we assess it as to the public economic and innovation benefits, and if we determine that those are high, then that project moves forward. The project then undertakes a technical review. We work closely with NRC IRAP. It takes financial due diligence and it also takes market due diligence. In certain cases depending on the project, we also work closely with GAC to look at the technical trade risks.

Depending on whether it's of high, medium or low benefit to Canada, then the project continues to move forward. If it is moving forward in terms of a high benefit to Canada, then we start the negotiations with the applicant on the obligations required. That can include the number of jobs, the number of co-ops, the amount of R and D collaborations, GHG reductions. It depends on the project, but those are the types of benefit to Canada that we negotiate.

That is the project flow as we look at the criteria for assessing these types of projects.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

There are three witnesses, and I'd like each of them to talk about those criteria.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Mr. Nowlan.

[Daryell Nowlan]

I can speak for ACOA. When we do a repayable contribution to a client—very similar to what Andrea pointed out—first of all we look at the application to see if it is eligible for the criteria of our particular programming. That looks at economic benefit, in our case to our region but ultimately to Canada. We look at the capacity of the firm or the entrepreneur to deliver on that project. We look at market opportunities. Depending on the nature of the project, we would also consult outside expertise, which may be scientific or technical experts, on the value of the project.

That's the kind of assessment that would be made to see if there were actually potential benefits that would come out of that project before a funding decision is made. Then again we would enter the negotiation with the client with regard to the repayment terms, talk about jobs created and that kind of thing. It's very similar.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You have time for a very quick one, Peter.

Do you want Ms. Buist to answer?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Yes.

[Margaret Buist, Vice-President, Policy and Planning, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency]

Thank you very much.

CanNor goes through a similar process. We do targeted expressions of interest for our funding aligned with our pan-territorial growth strategy, which originates in the north, and we look at the project outcomes: the biggest economic impact for northerners from the particular projects we are looking at; how they will enhance the ability of northern communities and businesses to take advantage of economic opportunities; benefits to multiple participants in the northern economy; how the project may address regional challenges; the level of funding from other stakeholders for the project that's available; and the potential for the project. Primarily our important thing is to enhance the northern economy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you all.

Turning to five-minute rounds, we have Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the officials for being here.

Last year Minister Bains stated that, under the strategic innovation fund, a little more than $1 billion had been paid out to various companies across Canada—46 projects, 56,000 jobs. The problem with that statement, as it turned out, according to access to information data, is that the number was not true. Instead of 56,000 jobs created, a little more than 6,600 jobs had been created, so the minister's statement of 56,000 jobs was 10 times the number of jobs created. That was as of March 31, 2019.

Could you provide an update as to how many jobs have been created under the strategic innovation fund?

[Andrea Johnston]

That number you referred to, the 6,000, was based on an ATIP request on a subset of data, so it does not compile all of the SIF jobs that have been created. As of now, there are 65 projects announced and approved under the strategic innovation fund. With the SIF contributions of over $2 billion, we've leveraged industry investments of $43 billion. We've created and maintained more than 60,000 jobs. We've ensured that there has been $9 billion in R and D commitments. We ensured that there were more than 9,800 co-op and training opportunities from these projects. In terms of clean-tech projects, we have GHG reductions of at least eight million tonnes of GHG emissions.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Just to repeat, how many jobs have been created under the fund?

[Andrea Johnston]

These are negotiated agreements. The projects are now starting to unroll. As we do the semi-annual reporting, we'll have a tracking system on the jobs.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Do you have a figure? More than a billion dollars has been paid out.

[Andrea Johnston]

These are 10-year projects.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I understand they're 10-year projects. More than a billion dollars has been paid out, so how many jobs have been created to date? The minister had a number, but it turned out to be the wrong number.

[Andrea Johnston]

There are jobs being created and maintained. These are the ones we are tracking.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

How many have been created?

[Andrea Johnston]

Again, the projects are just commencing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Did you not say though, in your remarks, that a number of jobs were created and maintained?

Did you not have 60,000? What was the number?

[Andrea Johnston]

Yes, 67,000.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It was 67,000 created and maintained.

Mr. Cooper

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Is it true the funds that are allotted, they can be repayable or non-repayable?

[Andrea Johnston]

Yes.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Of the more than a billion dollars that has been paid out, how much is repayable?