Finance Committee on July 16th, 2020

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

If suitable, I would also ask my deputy to elaborate.

There is a difference. A contribution agreement is what the public service entered in with WE Charity. It was not a contract. As I stated in my opening comments, the contribution agreement is what we negotiated with WE Charity. It was not a contract, as the Conservative opposition continues to apply.

If suitable, I would like to have my deputy share a couple of comments.

[Gina Wilson, Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister.

Indeed, “sole-source contract” is incorrect terminology. I'll give a little bit of a flavour of the difference between a contribution agreement and a contract.

Contribution agreements are regularly used by the government to further policy objectives and to engage a wide diversity of skills and resources outside the government. Contribution agreements are not subject to procurement thresholds, like service contracts, and follow terms and conditions. They are subject to performance conditions specified in the funding agreement, audits, monitoring and reporting requirements to ensure that all results are received. Officials negotiated an agreement for the design of this program under Canada service corps, an existing contribution program. A contract is a completely different tool.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Minister, could you go more into why WE was specifically selected as the organization that would carry out the administration of this program? I know that we'll be hearing about this later today from Ms. Wernick. She will speak to that as well, I'm sure, but provide for us, if you could, an explanation of what it was specifically about WE, as opposed to other organizations, that stood out in terms of their ability to carry out the program.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chair, in the midst of this pandemic, which has been a very unprecedented and challenging time, there are numerous programs being provided to Canadians to ensure that they have the support needed. Our focus has always been on Canadians and making sure mechanisms are in place. The non-partisan and professional public service is actually delivering many programs. At that time, they were also delivering the Canada emergency response benefit in addition to numerous other programs and at a greater scale than had ever been seen.

I would like to assure the member that I asked the same question about why the public service could not offer this program. Third parties had been used pre-COVID, but also during the COVID context it was recommended that WE Charity be used because they had the capacity as well as the network to be able to deliver this program. It was a recommendation that was made. I asked a lot of tough questions to see if there were others. The public service, and I am confident that they did their due diligence, was confident that this was the only organization that could provide this program in the timeline needed. I accepted their recommendation.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Again, was there any directive that came from the Prime Minister's Office, from the Prime Minister himself, about the need to choose WE as the charity that would administer this particular program?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I was not directed by the Prime Minister's Office. I did know that my focus was on students and youth. We wanted to connect young people who have been rolling up their sleeves with service opportunities and not-for-profits that have an increased demand for their services. It's something we turned over to the public service: “How can we deliver this program?” They have worked with numerous organizations, as I have been also communicating with, and they made the recommendation that WE Charity was the organization able to deliver this program within the timeline needed, with the scope and scale and magnitude that we were desiring. It's a very innovative program and had received quite a positive response.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Finally, I'd like to know what will happen now. Now that WE is no longer charged with the task of carrying out the administration of the program, what is being planned? What will become of the Canada student service grant? What is the message to organizations that wanted to participate, and indeed to young student volunteers or would-be volunteers, who wanted to make a contribution as we try to face the post-COVID-19 recovery?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like Canadians to know that our government and I remain committed to students to have these additional supports and opportunities, and for not-for-profits we know that there is an increased demand for their services. We are committed to finding innovative ways to deliver this program. I can assure you that my team and the public service are working around the clock to have opportunities and options available so that this program does go ahead. We recognize that there is a need. We've heard it with the messages and communications we are receiving from not-for-profits and students, so we remain committed to seeing this program delivered to help students in this very challenging time, as well as not-for-profits.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, both.

Mr. Fortin will be followed by Mr. Angus.

Mr. Fortin, the floor is yours.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Good afternoon, Ms. Chagger.

Minister, you said that you didn't speak to anyone at the Prime Minister's office before recommending WE Charity to cabinet and that you received the recommendation from Ms. Wilson. Is that correct?

My apologies. It was Rachel Wernick, rather.

Do you know who Ms. Wernick spoke to before she came to the conclusion that WE Charity should be the organization recommended to you?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

The public service, which is non-partisan, clearly indicated that this was the only organization with the capacity to deliver the program—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I asked you who she spoke to prior.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

—within the required time frame.

I'm going to take as long to answer the question as you did to ask it.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

There's no need to play the violin. Please answer the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fortin, the minister has the floor.

Go ahead.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

As I said, Rachel Wernick gave me the public service's recommendation, which I accepted. I know, as I'm sure everyone does, that Rachel Wernick will be appearing after me. The committee members will have the opportunity to ask her these questions directly.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Minister, did you have discussions with Ms. Wernick and other public servants about the recommendation before bringing it to cabinet?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

The members of my team were the ones who had ongoing discussions with the public servants.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

And what about you?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

The objective was to help students and not-for-profit organizations. We asked public servants for recommendations, suggestions. They recommended this organization because it could deliver the program.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Very well. I gather, then, that you did not take part in any discussions.

Canada service corps oversaw all of this in 2018, so how is it that the organization is out of the picture in 2020? Why was it excluded from the process?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Once again, that was the recommendation I was given by the public service, and I accepted it. This was the only organization with the capacity to deliver the program within the required time frame. I know, as everyone else does, that Ms. Wernick will be appearing after me, so any other questions about the public service should go to her.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Understood.

Did you, personally, ask why Canada service corps was apparently no longer fit to administer the program?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I asked that question and many others to make sure the program would be successful. The recommendation I was given, after numerous questions and discussions, was that this was the organization with the capacity to deliver the program. I accepted the recommendation I was given.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Who did you ask about why Canada service corps was no longer involved?