Evidence of meeting #43 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charity.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:45 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Minister, I understand that you did not read the due diligence report.
Did I understand correctly?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I received a recommendation from the public service and I did a lot of other things. I considered the importance of supporting students, and that was part of our deliberations.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, both.
Mr. Angus is next, for six minutes, followed by Mr. Cooper, for five.
2:45 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, the discussions with WE began with your officials on April 7, leading up to the Prime Minister's announcement. Were there any other proposals brought forward in that time by any other group, other than WE?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Thank you for the question.
I elaborated on the timeline in my prepared remarks—
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I was not involved directly in any of those proposals being received, or any of those direct discussions with other organizations. I do know that the process went through the public service.
2:45 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Could you give us the names of any other organizations?
The question we're dealing with is whether a group that's very close to you and your family, and very close to the Prime Minister's family, was given the inside track. We know that you talked with Craig Kielburger. You said you didn't discuss this, but the dye had been set. We know your finance officials had reached out to Rachel Wernick to tell her to talk to WE. We know there had been at least two weeks of discussions between the first proposal and the second proposal.
Were there other groups that were invited at that time to bring forward proposals? Will you give us the names of any that may have been involved?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I am aware there were consultations with a number of groups that provide service for youth. I'm not aware of each one of those names. That was never presented to me. I'm certain that we can provide an awareness of the organizations that were consulted with during the course of this period.
2:45 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Okay, thank you.
Minister Chagger said that the idea came from Rachel Wernick, the civil servant. Rachel Wernick told us that she learned about this when everyone else learned about it, when she was directly contacted by your staff.
My concern here, Mr. Morneau, is that you were being a pack mule for the Kielburgers to get this proposal through. The fact that you refused to recuse yourself is very damning. It really raises questions here. Why did you refuse to recuse yourself?
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
To be clear, we were in a position where we were trying to determine ways we could deliver on behalf of students. That was the goal here. The idea was to—
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
The minister has relatively equal time here. Please allow him to answer first.
Go ahead, Minister.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
That was our overriding goal. We knew that it was important to figure out a way to engage with students, to help them get back to school. That was my overriding concern. Given the legitimate perception of a conflict around my involvement previously, I've said that, in hindsight, I should have recused myself, and that was a mistake on my part.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, I believe when I first came into office I would have had access to all of those acts.
2:45 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
So, you're not familiar with it. You just remembered that WE paid $41,000 for you to travel. Are you not aware that under the Conflict of Interest Act, section 11, section 12 and section 15 of the code are explicit? It's also explicit that ministers are not to be getting paid travel.
If you don't really remember the Conflict of Interest Act, do you remember the Aga Khan ruling by the Ethics Commissioner? It seems that he made direct rulings about a situation that you are now in. Isn't there someone in your office who would tell you, “Come on, Minister, these are the rules and this is the law of the land. It applies to you as well”?
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, it is a mistake on my part not to have paid expenses. As I've said, I did not know that those expenses were not paid. I did not have any awareness of that. Over the course of the last short while, I have reviewed my records in detail and, given that serious oversight, I have made sure that it has been rectified.
I recognize that it was a mistake, and I take responsibility for that.
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Charlie, before you start again, can you hold your microphone a little closer and not keep rubbing it? The translators are having difficulty.