Okay. Thank you. So—
Evidence of meeting #43 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charity.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #43 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charity.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
—so it was not for the administration of the Canada student service grant.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you for that. I have a limited amount of time.
From the beginning of March to June 30, how many times have you had contact with anyone associated with the WE organization?
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
The only time that I have any recollection of communicating with anyone from the WE organization was, as I reported, on Sunday, April 26.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
On April 26, and that was with Craig Kielburger?
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Craig Kielburger is obviously someone in my riding who runs a large organization, so I've had exposure to him on numerous occasions, but I don't have any particular regular communication.
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Were you surprised that he would have contacted you just four days after he had submitted a proposal?
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
He didn't contact me; for clarity, I called him. During that time period, I was contacting business leaders, labour leaders, trying to make sure I understood the nature of the COVID-19 crisis and hearing the impacts on customers or on people who got served. That was an important part of my role. It continues to be an important part of my role, so that we can develop the kind of support necessary—
2:55 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Okay.
Well, since I only have a final question, Minister, will you undertake to provide the committee with all communications that your office had concerning the three proposals that are at issue—namely, the April 9, April 21 and April 22 proposals—as well as any communications you or your office had with anyone in the WE organization?
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We will certainly co-operate with the committee. That, I think, is important. I think there's been a request for documentation, which we will certainly comply with.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, both. I believe that request was made to Ms. Wernick as well.
We have Mr. Fragiskatos, followed by Mr. Poilievre.
Go ahead.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thanks for being here, Minister.
Just to be clear, Minister Morneau, you did not refuse to recuse yourself; it was an oversight on your part, correct?
3 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I think it was a mistake on my part. On reflection, in hindsight, I should have recused myself. I know that would have been a better course of action for us to deal with what we saw as a very important challenge facing students.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
I do have to ask this, Minister. I've worked with you for five years. I know you to be an honourable person and a good man, but I do have to ask: As far as going forward, on the process around recusing oneself, you've pledged to do so in the future, but is it a simple process at the cabinet level to do so?
3 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Well, yes. I have recused myself on numerous occasions around cabinet when I've seen that there was any potential for conflict. That's been a course I've taken over the time in office.
In this case, my daughter, Grace, was working in an administrative role. It was her starting job. I didn't see that as a conflict. In hindsight, I should have seen that people would be concerned about that. I wish I had done differently. I will certainly, in future, recuse myself from anything to do with the WE organization as a result of that association.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much. It was a question relating largely to process, and you've answered it.
I have a question, also, relating to WE on this decision. Why was WE chosen specifically, and not, for example, working through the Canada summer jobs program and expanding that? The Canada service corps, for instance, is another possibility. What stood out about WE in your mind?
3 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I think it's important not to talk about WE; it's more about what we were trying to achieve.
Our goal was to find a way to have an approach to national service during a time of national crisis. We saw that there was a combination of the opportunity for students to be engaged in something that would enable students also to be doing really meaningful work in a summer when so many jobs wouldn't be available. Finally, we thought the idea that they could have some incentive was going to be important, both to make that happen but also to recognize that they weren't going to necessarily have money from jobs this summer because of the pandemic. That was the goal.
The decision on how to administer it was very much taken in the course of Employment and Social Development Canada's review of how to deliver it. As I understand it, what they were trying to consider was whether the public service was capable of delivering, in a very short time period, this program that would make a difference for students. They concluded that a better way to do it would be with an outside organization that had those capabilities already so that we could move quickly. That was the goal. That was the recommendation that came back to us, which, of course, was satisfying our overall goal.
It's very important to put this in the context of what we were facing at that time. We were thinking about multiple programs to support different populations. We were thinking about people who were off work and people who were maybe having more expenses, like seniors. We were starting to contemplate people with disabilities and the challenges they were facing. Students were central to us because there are hundreds of thousands of them who wouldn't have jobs or wouldn't have opportunities if we didn't find some sort of way to deal with that.
3 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
With the last question.... I've asked this before but, since you're the Minister of Finance, I do want to put it to you: Where do we go from here? Is a program possible? I have young people in my constituency. I have many not-for-profits and charities that were excited by the vision set out in the Canada student service grant and want to make a contribution.
Organizations need volunteers, and young people are ready to volunteer. Is it possible to come up with a program that allows for tuition support to be granted for young people, on the one hand, and for organizations to benefit by the presence of young people? Can we still get to the underlying goal of the Canada student service grant—delivered differently, of course?