Finance Committee on July 22nd, 2020

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I guess the issue here is that WE paid for your travel. That has the apparent perception of attempting to buy political influence. The fact that you're talking with Craig Kielburger, you're talking with WE.... I'm not sure they're registered to lobby. They're hiring your daughter. You're not thinking that there's a problem here, but they're paying for influence. I think it's really concerning that you didn't seem to think that was a problem.

I'd like to end on this question. With WE, you signed a contribution agreement with a real estate holding company. How in God's name is it a credible decision by the Government of Canada to funnel nearly a billion dollars to a group that's very close to you and your family, and that's very close to the Prime Minister and his family? There was no public tender here. They come up with a real estate holding company, and you file the money through them. What were you thinking?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Minister, this is the final answer this round.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you.

To start with, as I've said, I certainly was in error not paying expenses. I didn't know about those expenses being paid on my behalf. That was an error and I have owned up for that error.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

No, you haven't.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I know that the government decision around the administration of this program was taken after the appropriate due diligence by the public service. I don't know which organization in the WE decision was the organization that was given that contract. That's not something that was brought to my attention. Of course we expect that—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Wow. It's a real estate holding company and you didn't double-check that. Where is the due diligence, Minister?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

As I've said, Mr. Chair, the public service took a look at how we could best deliver this program and how it could be best administered. That recommendation was the one we looked at in order to deliver on behalf of students.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll end that round there, but from my perspective there is some confusion during this round. You've been asked why, as a minister, you didn't call for tenders. I know this was a contribution agreement. The implication is that you were the minister responsible, so I have to ask you two questions. Who was the minister responsible, in terms of this agreement with WE? Who was the minister who signed the agreement at the end of the day?

Minister.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was not the minister responsible. As I outlined in my prepared remarks, that was Minister Chagger.

As to your second question on who signed the document, I'm actually not aware of that. My assumption would be Minister Chagger, but I know that Employment and Social Development Canada worked on this program. That was the arm of the public service that made the recommendation after their work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you for that.

The next round of questioning will start off with Mr. Cooper, followed by Mr. Fragiskatos, Mr. Poilievre and Ms. Dzerowicz.

Mr. Cooper, you have five minutes.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. I want to ask you to explain in further detail this $41,000 of hidden expenses. You have characterized these expenses as programming. What do you mean by that?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you.

When we took a look at our personal records, we found expenses that we paid for flights and for personal hotel costs, but we didn't find any expenses from the actual WE sites that we went to, that my wife and daughter went to—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

So what were those expenses?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

They would have been—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Wining and dining or...? Just explain what those expenses were.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Those expenses would have been for anything incurred at the WE facilities, so—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Give me an example.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I have not seen the line-by-line, but I would assume that they would be for accommodation, for going to the.... When I was there in Ecuador, we were helping to build a school, so it would have been for getting us to the school where we were doing that and perhaps the materials to build that school. Those were, I imagine, the things that were included in those expenses, along with, presumably, meals.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Meals—so wining and dining while you were in Ecuador. Thank you for that. Obviously, it's interesting that you just decided to do a detailed review now, just before you came before our committee, but I'll leave it at that.

I want to now go on to the timeline here. On April 18, you said, you were briefed by your officials. At that time, the WE proposal was brought to your attention. Were any other proposals brought to your attention or were any other organizations mentioned at that meeting?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Minister.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I believe that at that meeting I was briefed on the overall nature of the potential Canada student service grant, as well as the possibility of using an outside for-profit or not-for-profit organization to administer the program, based on the urgency of the program. That was the sum total of what we were trying to achieve, I believe, at that briefing.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Were any other proposals provided to you?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

No proposals of any sort were provided to me.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

You said you reviewed the WE proposal at that time or it was appended.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Sorry. For clarification, there was a proposal appended that was for a different program—