Evidence of meeting #45 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sir.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michelle Douglas  Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Caroline Bosc
Marc Kielburger  Founder, WE Charity
Craig Kielburger  Founder, WE Charity

12:20 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Well, because I was asked to resign by Craig Kielburger and opted to do so immediately as a result of a number of concerns—I would say I had three specific concerns—there was no orderly transition between the old board...or certainly the old board chair, me, and the new Canadian board chair, Greg Rogers. I've met Mr. Rogers before, but I do not know him well. I really have no kind of relationship with him. Unfortunately, the circumstances of my resignation meant that there was no transfer in the ordinary course of information.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC

As past chair of the board of WE Charity in Canada, how much say did you have in the overall governance and strategic direction of the organization?

12:20 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Certainly, the board of directors worked as a team. I had the very great honour to be the chair of that board of directors, a position I was very pleased to hold given the amazing people who were there in the team behind me and with me. The board, I would say, has power to make decisions around governance, establish a direction of oversight and so on, and review financial records. As for myself personally, I was just one member of the board, although I met quite regularly with the executive team.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We will have to switch over to Ms. Dzerowicz for a couple of minutes.

Julie.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Ms. Douglas, for being here. It's really important. I really appreciate your testimony.

I know you said you volunteered with WE for 15 years, but perhaps you can confirm if you were the board chair for 10 years, right?

12:20 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

I actually think it was a little bit longer than that, but my records aren't precise on the point. I would say it was a bit longer than 10 years, but unfortunately I don't have a start date that I could refer you to.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

That's okay.

I have two key questions. I want to focus on what we as a committee are here to do.

One, even though you've left, is there any reason for us to doubt the financial ability of WE Charity to have delivered the Canada student service grant proposal? If they continued to have it, was there any reason from a financial perspective that they would not have been able to deliver it?

12:25 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Well, in the four months from yesterday essentially that I've been away from the organization, I think it's possible that a lot has changed in the financial standing of the organization, but I do not have those details.

Certainly, I did not have immediate questions about the solvency or financial standing of the organization at the time I left, although I certainly deeply appreciated the potential impacts of COVID on the organization from a financial perspective.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

I have only one more question for you.

I think originally our civil servants looked at a number of organizations, and in the short period of time they had, they decided that WE had the best abilities and capabilities and things they were looking for to deliver the Canada student service grant program.

Do you have any doubt that the WE Charity would have been able to deliver the CSSG program?

12:25 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Given the date of my resignation, I didn't know what the scope of the program was at all, so it's really quite impossible for me to explain whether or not they would have been able to deliver it.

I do know that WE Charity had, at one time, certainly many hundreds of employees, but by the time I left, many of those employees were leaving. They had extensive networks both in Canada and in the United States as well as internationally, but insofar as their ability to deliver on that program goes, I just don't know.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you to all three.

We'll turn to Mr. Fortin followed by Mr. Angus.

Mr. Fortin.

12:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Ms. Douglas.

Ms. Douglas, earlier you told us that, as WE Charity was not in the habit of doing so, you would be surprised if Mrs. Margaret Trudeau, the Prime Minister's mother, his wife Sophie Grégoire, or his brother Alexandre Trudeau, were paid. To your knowledge, they were never paid. Is that correct?

12:25 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

I didn't make any inquiries into their specific status, but generally the information provided to the board was that no speakers were paid to speak at WE Days.

12:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Are you aware of the various trips WE Charity offered to certain politicians, including Mr. Morneau?

12:25 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

I am aware that a number of people travelled to some of the international development locations, the so-called WE Village locations supported by WE Charity.

As for the list of people who attended, the board did not get into the specifics of every single guest who was attending, whether they were politicians or particularly well-known people. Sometimes we were made aware of them, but not always.

12:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Okay.

Are you aware of the fact that Mr. Morneau and his wife—and perhaps their daughters too—travelled to places like Kenya with WE Charity in 2017?

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Fortin, the interpreter is having difficulty picking you up. Maybe try raising your mike a little. Try that.

12:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Okay.

I will repeat my question, Ms. Douglas.

Ms. Douglas, are you aware of the fact that Mr. Morneau, his wife and members of his family travelled to Kenya with WE Charity around 2017?

12:25 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

I'm not sure if I have understood the interpreter correctly, so perhaps that's a point for precision, but I was unaware that Minister Morneau had gone to Africa in 2017.

12:30 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Last week, Mr. Morneau told us that he had to pay back about $43,000 to WE Charity for his trips to Ecuador and Kenya.

As I understand it, you were unaware that he had to reimburse the charity for travel expenses.

12:30 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Thank you for that precision, Mr. Fortin.

Yes, I was aware that the Minister of Finance made a repayment to WE Charity. I don't precisely know what the details would align or correspond to. I don't quite know about that. I'm aware that he personally, and members of his family, travelled to Equador, and possibly.... I believe other members of his family travelled to Kenya at some earlier date, but I don't know the details of that.

12:30 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

However, you do know that he had to pay back about $43,000 in travel expenses. You are aware.

12:30 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

I did see that reported, yes.

12:30 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Regarding those expenses, do you know if an invoice was issued and sent to Mr. Morneau?

12:30 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

I'm not well positioned, as a former member of the board of directors, to know about those details. The executive team undoubtedly would be better placed to address a question like that. I don't know how invoicing systems work.