Evidence of meeting #45 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sir.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michelle Douglas  Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Caroline Bosc
Marc Kielburger  Founder, WE Charity
Craig Kielburger  Founder, WE Charity

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We will officially call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 45 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. We are meeting on government spending, WE Charity and the Canada student service grant. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

For the information of members—the notice just came out now—on the first panel we will have, as an individual, between 12 p.m. and 1 p.m. Ottawa time, Michelle Douglas, former chair of the board of directors of WE Charity. Craig Kielburger and Marc Kielburger have agreed to come for four hours, from 1 p.m. until 5 p.m. Ottawa time. They will appear on the second panel.

I'd like to welcome our first witness. Michelle Douglas is a former chair of the board of directors.

Welcome to the committee. We appreciate your appearing. If you could hold your remarks to 10 minutes or less, it would be helpful and would give us more time for questions.

The floor is yours.

12:05 p.m.

Michelle Douglas Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Thank you very much, Chair. Good afternoon, everyone. I'd like to thank you, Chair and members of the committee, for the invitation to appear today.

My name is Michelle Douglas. I'm the former chair of the board of directors of WE Charity. I resigned from WE Charity on March 27, 2020. I was a volunteer with WE Charity for approximately 15 years. For 30 years, I worked as a federal public servant. I retired from the Department of Justice in September 2019 from the role of director of international relations. I'm also a military veteran and I have been a human rights activist for most of my adult life.

My human rights activism emerged as a result of my experience in the Canadian military in the late 1980s. I was fired by the military in 1989. I was a victim of Canada's shameful LGBT purge and endured quite a devastating experience being subjected to horrendous practices designed to rid the military of LGBT people.

My 1992 lawsuit resulted in the formal ending of Canada's armed forces' policy of discrimination against LGBT people. This life-changing experience launched me into a life of human rights activism as a volunteer. I have volunteered on several boards of directors over the past few decades, and volunteerism in service to others is one of the central pillars in my life.

Currently I'm the executive director of a not-for-profit organization that is focused on reconciliation initiatives associated with the LGBT purge. I joined the board of directors of Free The Children in approximately 2005 following a meeting with Marc Kielburger. I'd been inspired by his brother Craig's work as a young teen and I was excited by the prospect of working with an organization that would inspire young people to contribute to a more just, hopeful and loving world.

I was an enthusiastic supporter of Free The Children and later WE Charity. The board that I chaired consisted of dedicated, skilled and committed volunteers. Board members included academics, educators, human rights activists, business people, a chartered accountant, a lawyer and others. In addition to attending board meetings, board members committed a tremendous amount of time to the organization. This took various forms, from regular meetings with the executive team to travelling to see the charity's international operations, to spending time with WE's employees, to attending events such as WE Days.

Given my passion for the organization, it was a difficult decision for me to tender my resignation. I did not resign as a routine matter or as part of a planned board transition. I resigned because I could not do my job. I could not discharge my governance duties.

In March, the WE Charity executive team were scrambling to contend with the impacts of the pandemic, and they began to lay off large numbers of staff. As the days went by, the number of job losses grew quickly, into the hundreds. The board felt, of course, a duty to protect the organization and to consider the interests of its stakeholders, including its employees, donors, partners, beneficiaries and others. I convened an ad hoc committee of the board to hold daily calls with the executive team for briefings and updates, and we provided key updates, in turn, to the board at large.

The committee made requests of the WE Charity executive team that we considered necessary for the board to discharge its oversight duties. By March 23, aside from verbal briefings, we had not seen any written evidence, reports or raw data to support the drastic measures that were being taken by the organization. Our oral briefings were focused largely on things like the status of support from sponsors. We were told that the executive team was running daily financial reports to inform their decision-making, but those reports were not shared with the board despite our requests.

It was our view that we could not fire hundreds of people without very strong demonstrable evidence and, even then, that we should explore mitigation measures to save jobs. Instead, the executive team were dismissing employees with great speed and in large numbers.

Given the pace and volume of job losses, the board committee demanded that the executive team produce immediately the documents and reports that were said to be being generated and relied upon on a daily basis. If the organization was making drastic decisions based on daily reports, we needed to see them. The executive team, when asked, did not agree to provide these documents.

On March 25 Craig Kielburger called me to ask that I resign from the board of directors of WE Charity. It was clear that there was a breakdown in trust between the founders and me as the board chair. WE is a founder-led organization, and Marc and Craig Kielburger hold significant power in the organization. As I was not going to be able to discharge my oversight duties, I opted to resign immediately. In an accelerated process, the remainder of the board of directors was replaced—but for one Canadian member and two U.S. board members—in early April. I was not on the board at that time, and therefore cannot speak to the circumstances of their replacement.

Given the nature of these proceedings, I'd like to add the following. Having resigned on March 27, 2020, I have no knowledge whatsoever of the Canada student service grant program. I was involved in some discussions in 2018 with the board of directors that concerned an entity called the WE Charity Foundation. While the entity was established in January 2018, the board was never satisfied that the operation of this foundation was in the best interests of the charity or its various stakeholders. To the best of my knowledge, it was not in operation as of my departure from the board.

The WE Charity board always understood that speakers were not paid by the charity or the related organization to speak at WE Days. The board made direct inquiries on this issue.

As I wrap up my remarks, I want to conclude on two points. My family has been deeply involved in the WE organization for many years. We have fundraised and volunteered. My sister and nephew once worked for the organization. My family values serving others, and WE allowed us to express that value over many years. I know that all of us are saddened by the developments that have led us here today.

Finally, I'd like to affirm my belief in the very good work done by WE Charity. I've always believed in the organization's empowerment of young people to change our world. I've always believed in WE Charity's international development work and life-changing impacts. I've always been grateful for the incredible commitment of the organization's supporters and volunteers. Finally, I've always been inspired by the amazing and selfless professionals, the employees, who work so hard to implement the mission of WE. Those people have my respect and deep thanks.

That concludes my remarks, Chair. Thank you.

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you very much, Ms. Douglas, for those remarks. I know I speak for the committee when I say thank you for your service to the country through the military, your service as a public servant with the Department of Justice, and your human rights activism, which has been responsible for changing some of the social policy in Canada. Thank you for that.

The speaking order will be Mr. Poilievre, Ms. Koutrakis, Mr. Fortin and Mr. Angus. They will be the first four up.

Mr. Poilievre, you have six minutes.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Thank you for your service to Canada, Madam Douglas, and for your testimony today.

You indicate that the board was told that WE Charity did not pay speakers. Is that correct?

12:10 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

How did they communicate—

12:10 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Let me be more precise: at WE Days.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

At WE Days. Okay.

Were you under the impression that they paid speakers at other events?

12:10 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Employees spoke at other events, and of course they were compensated, but—

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Speaking fees?

12:10 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

No, I don't believe so.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

So, to your knowledge, no one on the board was ever informed that speaking fees would be paid for outside participants to come to WE events and give speeches.

12:15 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

At least for WE Days, which was the focus of our inquiries, that was my understanding.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Were you surprised to learn that Margaret, Sophie and Sacha Trudeau received over $300,000 in speaking fees?

12:15 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

I don't know the precise nature of what they were paid for, but if it was exclusively to speak on the WE Day stage, that would have surprised me.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Would it have surprised you if it was to speak at any other event related to the WE Charity?

12:15 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

I never made inquiries into that kind of adjunct or associated area, so I just don't know about that particular aspect.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Did the Kielburgers or WE Charity ever expressly communicate to the board that speakers were not paid for WE Day events?

12:15 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

They did. Okay.

12:15 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Or that may have come from the executive director of the organization, but I know that the board made inquiries into that.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Who was that executive director?

12:15 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

It was one of two. I can't be precise on the time. It was either Scott Baker or Dalal Al-Waheidi.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Thank you.

The Kielburgers justified their mass layoffs in March on the basis of the financial trouble that they anticipated would be linked to the coronavirus outbreak. Did I understand you correctly when you described that?

12:15 p.m.

Former Chair of the Board of Directors, WE Charity, As an Individual

Michelle Douglas

Well, they were certainly seized with issues surrounding the impact from the virus, and I know that the organization was being impacted significantly. For example, schools were closing; WE Days had to cease and the ME to WE entity could no longer run trips or have retail operations, so there were significant implications for the organization.