Evidence of meeting #47 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
I know we are looking at several million dollars, but let me emphasize that previous governments, such as the Conservatives and provincial governments, have also had commitments and contracts with the organization, which is doing an outstanding job for young people across the country.
3:35 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
I am not putting the WE Charity on trial, but the question I am asking myself is whether or not our money is well managed. You can understand that some questions seem important to us.
Let me come back to the Registry of Lobbyists. I understand that, since you became Prime Minister in 2015, millions of dollars—I saw figures like 5 or 10, but we no longer know for sure—have been given to WE Charity.
I imagine that you knew that Mr. Morneau had travelled with WE Charity recently. Is that correct?
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
First, with respect to your question about contributions to WE Charity, neither my office nor I were involved in any of those agreements with WE.
As for Mr. Morneau, I was not specifically aware that he had travelled with WE, but I was aware that one of his daughters—not the one who worked for WE—was involved with the organization, in one way or another.
3:35 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Mr. Prime Minister, what does that mean: “I was not specifically aware that he had travelled with WE”? Did you not know, or did you know, but not specifically? What does that mean exactly?
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
I am not surprised, because I know how involved Mr. Morneau is in many causes, including causes for youth. No, I did not know that he had travelled with WE specifically.
3:35 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Okay.
So you knew that his daughter had worked for WE, that his daughter was involved.
3:35 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
No, no, I'm sorry. I knew that one of his daughters had done projects with WE, and that she had written a book on women's engagement, which I had received at one point. However, I did not know that he had another daughter who was working as such for the organization.
3:35 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Prime Minister, did you, at any point, ask Mr. Morneau to ensure that the WE people were properly registered in the Registry of Lobbyists?
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
Since I was not aware that there was any interaction with WE with respect to the COVID-19 program, I had no reason to ask about lobbying and the Kielburgers.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
As I said, while the process was taking place, I was not aware that WE was chosen to deliver this program. So there would have been no reason to ask Ms. Chagger about lobbying.
3:40 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
If I am not mistaken, you announced the program on April 29, and immediately afterwards, WE came into the picture. You know that WE has been in the picture for a long time. To your knowledge, you never asked any of your ministers, any of your staff, or anyone else to check whether WE was in the Registry of Lobbyists?
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
First, it is not the Prime Minister's role to ask all his ministers to check on lobbying issues; we have people in our offices to do that, and I expect them to do their job.
Second, I did not know about WE's involvement until May 8, once all those decisions and recommendations had been made by the public service.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I'm sorry, Mr. Fortin. We're a little over.
We'll turn to Mr. Angus for six minutes, who will be followed by Mr. Poilievre and then Mr. McLeod.
Mr. Angus.
3:40 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Prime Minister, for joining us today.
I agree with you. Canadians are in the worst medical and economic catastrophe in a century. What's very frustrating for me is that we've worked very hard across party lines to reassure Canadians that we are putting their interests first, yet we're here today because of this, I think, very unnecessary scandal, and it comes down fundamentally to a question of your judgment.
There were numerous red flags with this proposal. It fell apart the second it was announced, but the question that sticks with people is that you've been found guilty twice of breaking the Conflict of Interest Act. You seem to have this.... You give an impression, anyway, that you don't believe that the laws that define what politicians can and cannot do apply to you. So here we are with a case—that was such an obvious conflict of interest because of your connection with the Kielburgers—that has derailed so much good work and hurt students.
Do you recognize what you've done here and the damage that has been done to all of us trying to reassure Canadians?
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
First of all, Mr. Angus, through this pandemic, which, as you say, has been extraordinarily difficult and impactful on Canadians, we have remained focused on them. We have delivered, to over eight million Canadians, the Canada emergency response benefit, a wage subsidy that has kept businesses going, commercial rent assistance, support for seniors and support for students—a $9-billion package, of which, yes, this volunteer program was a part. It is disappointing that we're not going to be able to give grants to students who are volunteering across the country so far. We still are working on that, obviously.
At the same time, Mr. Angus, you need to know that we have delivered concretely for Canadians. Also, when I received the information that the WE Charity had been chosen, recommended by the public service, to deliver the student grant program, I pushed back, perhaps because of the experience that you highlighted, that we have had push-backs in the past.
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
I wanted to make sure that all the i's were dotted and all the t's were crossed. The public service was ready to fully justify that choice of WE Charity as the only organization—
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
3:40 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I guess the issue is that, for Canadians, the idea that this was the only game in town, that WE was the only game in town.... I'm sure around your cabinet it probably was, but the fact is that the Kielburger brothers carefully cultivated their relationship with you and your brand. After you became Prime Minister, they put you on the stadium circuit. They hired your family members to the tune of half a million dollars. They hired the finance minister's daughter. They flew him around the world. They even made their staff go to his parties.
Do you think that's not conflict of interest? Is that conflict of interest, yes or no?
3:40 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
From the very first, Mr. Angus, you were, unfortunately, misleading people with your proposal. This was not something that we selected. This is not something that cabinet selected.
Cabinet was presented a choice by our professional public service, saying, “If you want to deliver this summer volunteer program, the summer grant program, it's going to have to be through this third party organization.” They didn't give us a choice of two or three different organizations, so when you say that it was maybe the reality around the cabinet table but it wasn't necessarily the reality out there, you're actually impugning the very fine public servants—
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC
—who have done extraordinary work across this pandemic on delivering for Canadians. If they said that there is no other organization that can deliver the scale of grants to students across this country, then I believe them.