Finance Committee on Feb. 5th, 2020

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My congratulations to you, Minister. I enjoyed our time together in the last Parliament as committee colleagues, so I wish you the best and extend my congratulations now, as you are a witness to our committee and we have you at that end of the table. It's nice to see you this evening.

I'm going to begin by asking you a question you've been asked both in the media and in the chamber. You replied to this question that I placed on the Order Paper about the definition of “middle class”. You've had some time to prepare and I want to know if you have an answer, a definition now, or if it is the position of your government that there is no definition of “middle class”.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much for that question, which I was expecting. Again, thank you all for being here this evening.

I am looking at the middle class and we know that Canadians want to have access to a good home. They want to be able to pay for education for their kids. They want a dignified and secure retirement, and they want good jobs.

Canadians live across the country and have different realities. They can be living in Calgary or in Churchill. They have different family structures. The important thing is that we have to face the fact that they have costs of living and it's important to say that the middle class has the reality of wanting that good place, education and retirement. Therefore, we can look at it that way and look at moving forward on making sure that day-to-day lives are taken into consideration during our policy at this time.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

One might just say that we wish these things for all Canadians, rather than to get into this class language, but I'll set that aside for now and take it that the government will not have a definition and wonder how one will measure the progress of prosperity for the middle class without a definition.

You mentioned in your opening remarks the tax cut, which will amount to about $90 per taxpayer. You mentioned in the media that Canadians could buy groceries, send their kids to camp or place their kids in activities, or save for their retirement. Will a Canadian family be able to achieve a secure retirement on $90 a year when they're maybe using that money to buy groceries or send their kids to camp?

That $90 per year is about $1.70 per week.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I would like to go back to 2015 when we formed government. Canadians elected us because they felt a lot of pressure. They were feeling that they weren't part of the economy and they really wanted to thrive, so our government decided to invest in Canadians.

The first thing we did was cut taxes for the middle class. We also initiated the Canada child benefit, which gave middle-class Canadians access to more money in their pockets and that helped us lift over 900,000 Canadians out of poverty, including 300,000 children.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

My question was in response to your opening statement about a $90-per-year tax cut. Will that pay for groceries or kids going to camp and secure a retirement for Canadians?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Those measures that I mentioned are ones that help with the costs of Canadians' day-to-day lives, and we wanted to continue that. Canadians elected us to continue to help them to put more money in their pockets and that was why we added a new measure, which is the tax cut measure, which will add $300 for Canadians or $600 for families.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

The Parliamentary Budget Officer doesn't agree with that number. This year it will be $90.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

It will lift 1.1 million Canadians out of paying taxes because they will no longer pay any taxes, and it will help over 20 million Canadians have more money in their pockets.

All of the measures that we've decided to undertake, and our decision to invest in Canadians, at the end of the day, are helping them, but we know we still have work to do. That is why, during the pre-budget consultations, we will be working and listening to Canadians to understand which other priorities we can put in place, not only to continue to strengthen the middle class but also to grow the economy.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

Your mandate letter instructs you to support the Minister of Finance in reviews of government spending and tax expenditure, and to transparently report the results to the public. The finance minister is no stranger to this committee. He has appeared here many times and has refused and failed to answer very basic questions about the finances of the Government of Canada.

Being instructed in your mandate letter to transparently report results to the public, are you the minister who can tell this committee in what year the budget will be balanced?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

We've committed to Canadians that we will continue to invest in them and also find ways to grow the economy. As for the spending review that you were asking about, our government is committed to launching the next phase of a review of government spending and tax expenditures, and I will be working with the Minister of Finance in my mandate to see what kind of review we can put forward.

Also, it's really a responsibility that we have to be responsible fiscal managers. We will need to make sure that our resources are used in an effective way that allows us to continue to invest in people and keep the economy strong and growing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We will have to end you both there. We're a little over, but that's fine.

We'll go to Ms. Dzerowicz, and then back to Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much.

I want to say a warm welcome to you, Minister, for being here, and a welcome to both of your officials who have accompanied you. We very much appreciate your opening comments.

As you may know, in my riding of Davenport, climate change is probably one of the top two issues that I heard at the doors during the election. They love that we spent or have committed $63 billion in terms of tackling climate change. They love the 50 climate actions that we have under way. They're really happy with a lot of the promises that we've made around moving to net zero by 2050 and the many other platform promises that we have, but they want us to be even more aggressive and go even faster.

One of the things we talk about in Davenport is systemic change. It's the fact that if we're really seriously going to make the progress we need to make to reach our Paris accord targets, the way we spend money has to change.

I asked this question to officials the other day, but I wanted to pose it to you as well. It's related to federal government spending and a climate lens. To what extent are federal budget 2020 decisions being made based on their impact on climate change? How is it that we're asking ourselves, as we're making decisions around the federal budget 2020, whether these decisions are leading Canada to be more sustainable? Are they leading us to moving toward achieving our Paris accord targets? Are they actually leading us to a low-carbon economy?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you for your question.

We all know that we need to put in all the energy possible to fight climate change. One of the measures we put forward was to make sure that we put a price on pollution, because pollution isn't free anymore. By putting price on pollution, it will help us to continue to protect the economy for kids and grandkids, and will also to put money back into the pockets of Canadians, because we put forward climate change incentives for some provinces like Ontario and Manitoba, where it goes back into Canadians' pockets.

As to your question about how we will continue to make sure that we take this into consideration, during the budgetary process, for every proposal that is analyzed or presented by cabinet, there is an environmental assessment framework that is part of the analysis. That is something that we're taking into consideration, to look at how it will affect our strategy to lower to net zero by 2050.

I might want to ask the officials to explain the process a bit more, if possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Mr. Rochon.

[Paul Rochon, Deputy Minister, Department of Finance]

I'd be happy to do that. I can do so fairly briefly.

For every budget proposal, the department, working with other departments, does a fairly complete environmental assessment of the individual proposals and presents those to the minister and ultimately the Prime Minister.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

By an environmental assessment I assume you mean an environmental lens.

[Paul Rochon]

An environmental lens, yes.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Is it making us more sustainable? Is it consistent with our achieving our Paris accord targets? Are those the kinds of questions you ask?

[Paul Rochon]

Those are the types of questions. Essentially, what are the environmental impacts if they are outside of matters that might affect greenhouse gas emissions: land preservation, impact on oceans, plastics more recently, and those types of things?

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much. That's something I know I'll take back to Davenport, and I know they'll be happy to hear that. Thank you again.

My second question relates to seniors. The seniors I have in Davenport are... They're amazing, but I'm very partial. They are such a diverse community. They're Portuguese. They're Italian. They're Hispanic. They're Middle Eastern. They're South Asian. They're wonderfully diverse. I meet with them quite a bit. They were super happy with the national dementia strategy we put in place in the last budget. They're really happy with all the additional dollars around the new horizons for seniors program funding. That was really important for them. They were really happy when we made the promise in our platform around the 10% increase if you're 75 and over, and the 25% additional dollars to your CPP for the survivor's benefit, because everyday costs are still very expensive for them.

My riding is in downtown west Toronto. They have homes that are worth quite a bit of money—they would love to stay in the area—but they're having a hard time moving out because they have nowhere to go. They're also looking for some additional housing for seniors.

Minister, can you explain how you plan on incorporating seniors and their needs into the budget process?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I believe this is something that is being done by inviting seniors to participate in this pre-budget consultation. At this time we've received, as I was saying earlier, 16,000 online responses. I would like to know, at the end of the day, if many seniors participated. I'm sure they are voicing their ideas and priorities. I know that during my tour to Windsor, I had a chance to meet with seniors. It is part of their reality that they need more support. They want to be able to have a dignified and secure retirement. They have worked very hard, and we realize that we have to make sure they have access to more opportunities.

As you know, we reduced the age of eligibility of old age security and the guaranteed income supplement from 67 to 65, as the prior government had increased it to 67. That gave them an opportunity to put more money in their pockets. That was a measure that we did right away when we were elected in 2015. We also increased the guaranteed income supplement by $947 for the most vulnerable single seniors, improving the financial security for about 900,000 people. We want to continue to see, as we committed to in the throne speech and our platform, how we can help the most vulnerable seniors, the 75-plus, and include the 10%.

The survivor's benefit is also something that we've been hearing about. It was part of the platform, so that will be part of the conversation in the budget.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll have to cut that round there.

We'll go to Mr. Ste-Marie, and then over to Mr. Julian.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Good evening, Minister. I’d like to welcome the deputy ministers and the team of officials here with you as well.

My first question is about the last priority in your mandate letter, the implementation of the new financial consumer protection framework. Do you think the government is ready to implement the framework, and might it be included in the first budget?

I would be particularly pleased this evening if you were able to assure me that, once the framework is implemented, Quebec’s Consumer Protection Act will continue to apply to the banking sector, just as it does now. After all, the federal government has always respected the Civil Code of Quebec on Quebec’s territory. If that were to change with the implementation of the framework, it would be a first.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Could you give me a few moments, please?

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Absolutely, as long as the chair stops the clock.