Evidence of meeting #50 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. David Gagnon
Benoît Robidoux  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Marc Tassé  Senior Advisor, Canadian Centre of Excellence for Anti-Corruption, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

I was not.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Was there any discussion about the ability of WE to provide services in French? As I'm sure you're aware from media reports, that was going to be farmed out to a company with strong historical links to the Liberal Party, which compounds the scandal, of course. Were you aware at all of the fact that the charity could only provide services in English and wouldn't be able to provide services in Quebec?

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Well, of course, I can't discuss what was discussed at either the committee or cabinet, but I was confident in my support for the recommendation that this program was going to be delivered in both official languages in all provinces and territories. That's something I personally looked for, and I was satisfied with the level of information I had that it would happen.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

However, the discussion about farming this out to a company that has historical links to the Liberal Party was not something that came up. Therefore, you didn't know the how. You just felt that there were sufficient assurances that the program would be offered in both official languages.

I have a—

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

This is your last question, Peter.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

I have a final question, which is that WE, traditionally—and you would know this, having spoken at one of its events—works predominantly with high school students, not with university students. Did that issue ever come up? We've raised the violation of the codes of ethics of teachers across the country, but WE and the CSSG simply don't mesh in terms of the clientele, who would, largely, have been at university.

My final question is about the president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada, who testified here that the public service could and should have provided the program. Was there any consultation with the president of the Public Service Alliance before this decision was made?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

There were a bunch of questions in there.

To your very last question, I wasn't involved in any discussions. I don't know if other ministers or the lead minister on this was. As I said yesterday, I respect the desire for public servants to dig in and deliver everything. My assessment was that we had reached their capacity, that their bandwidth was already being stretched.

In addition, I had seen us deliver, successfully, programs through third parties, so this wasn't extraordinary. It wasn't an “only because public servants couldn't do this” way. This was very much because this was really the best way to do this, in my opinion, through a third party that could give the individualized, almost concierge-like support, to young people and to organizations.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you both.

We'll go to five-minute rounds now. We'll start with Mr. Poilievre and then go to Mr. Fragiskatos. We may have time for a third CPC question in here later, if somebody wants to think about it. I don't have them on my list.

Mr. Poilievre, you have five minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Robidoux, was it just you, Ms. Wernick, and Ms. Kovacevic on the April 16 call or meeting?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoît Robidoux

I will have to get back to you on that. I don't know that. I would think there were more people on the call, but I couldn't tell you who was on the call.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Would there have been any exempt staff on the call?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoît Robidoux

No, not at that time.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Would that call have been recorded?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoît Robidoux

I don't believe so.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

All right. Then there was another meeting on the 18th with Madam Kovacevic and Madam Wernick. Were you involved in that meeting?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoît Robidoux

I was. I was invited. In fact, I wasn't sure I was there on the call, and I checked my phone. I asked to have my phone log checked, and I was on that call.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Ms. Kovacevic said that it was Ms. Wernick who suggested WE, and then Ms. Wernick said it was Ms. Kovacevic. Do you remember who actually made the suggestion to involve WE in the delivery of this or any other program?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoît Robidoux

Again, I would say to that question that on that call there was no question about that program and involving WE in the delivery of that program, because that program was not yet designed. It was in the context, as I said, of the rest of the package, about the “I Want to Help” platform, and then—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Did you suggest to Ms. Wernick that she contact Mr. Kielburger?

3:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoît Robidoux

As far as I can remember, she herself said in an email that she was going to get in touch with WE. That's in the documents you will get. It's in the email. She said that in the email. As for that specific meeting on the 18th, I have no specific recollection of who said what to whom.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Did you ever hear it mentioned that ministerial staff were interested in engaging WE for any purpose after March 1?

3:50 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoît Robidoux

No, I didn't hear that at any time after March 1, that specific question, but the fact they would be interested in contacting them, no, not.... Well, again you may.... I need to be careful here, because there was a first proposal, the social entrepreneurship proposal for youth, which was with Minister Ng, but in the context of the measure we're looking at, no.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Were you aware that the CSSG was pulled from the cabinet agenda on May 8?

3:50 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development

Benoît Robidoux

I think I was told by Rachel that the item was pulled, that she was—

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

What due diligence did your department conduct between May 8 and May 22?