Evidence of meeting #50 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cabinet.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. David Gagnon
Benoît Robidoux  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Marc Tassé  Senior Advisor, Canadian Centre of Excellence for Anti-Corruption, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Excuse me. My apologies, Monsieur Fortin. I'm just putting on the interpretation.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

It's no problem.

You told us that the contract for the student grants had been approved by all ministers around the table.

I would like to know if you knew at that time that the contract was not with WE Charity, but rather with the WE foundation.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

No, Mr. Fortin, I did not. We had approved the recommendation put forward to cabinet by my colleague minister and understood that it would be WE Charity that would deliver this program.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

So, if I understand correctly...

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Not to interrupt you, Mr. Fortin, but I skipped Mr. Fraser, so we'll let you finish your round and then go back to Mr. Fraser.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Okay.

If I understand correctly, Madam Minister, you never approved a contract between the federal government and the WE foundation. You never agreed to that.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

We approved as a cabinet the Canada student service grant. It was a policy approval, a cabinet approval. That's what we approved. We understood how important it was to make sure we had a program that was going to give our young people the opportunity to provide service in communities across the country, and that's what we approved.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Excuse me, I do not wish to be impolite, but we only have so much time.

I understand that you approved the establishment of a grant program, but I am talking about the agreement between the federal government and the WE Charity Foundation of Canada. As I understand it, you never approved it.

Is that correct?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Well, as a cabinet, we do approve the program. The details on the implementation are done by the public service.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

I am talking about that contract.

You approved the contract with WE Charity, but did you approve the contract with the WE foundation?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

We approved the Canada student service grant—

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

I understand that.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

—but it is the civil service that would take the direction of cabinet and then work through the implementation.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

I am sorry, Madam Minister, but that's not my question.

I understand your testimony, and I am not trying to put you on the spot. I am asking you a very simple question: I have a contract here between the federal government and the WE Charity Foundation of Canada.

Did you approve this agreement?

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Mr. Fortin, in cabinet we take decisions that approve the expenditure and the program—

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

That's not my question, Madam Minister.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

—and it is the responsibility of the civil service to then subsequently execute the direction of cabinet.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Okay, but that does not answer my question.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

If I could, I'll intervene here for a minute, Mr. Fortin.

Madam Minister, we've had this discussion before. What Mr. Fortin is getting at is that there is quite a distinction between WE Charity and the WE Charity Foundation. I think his question relates to what your knowledge was of the WE Charity Foundation.

We'll go over to you, Mr. Fortin.

4:25 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Perhaps the interpretation is unclear, but I just want to make sure we understand each other, Madam Minister.

I understand that you approved the student grant program. I understand that, in your mind, you were entrusting WE Charity with the program. However, I am telling you that the contract was given to the WE foundation, which is another company.

Did you, personally, approve this contract between the federal government and the WE Charity Foundation of Canada?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Mr. Fortin, thank you for that clarification. I don't recall the specifics.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Do you recall if anyone else in cabinet approved the agreement with the WE Charity Foundation of Canada?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I wouldn't have that knowledge, Monsieur Fortin.

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

All right.

Were you present at the cabinet meeting on May 8?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I apologize. The translation didn't come through for the question. Would you mind repeating it?