Finance Committee on Aug. 12th, 2020

[Benoît Robidoux]

I never had the chance to do any remarks at the beginning, but after April 22 I was no longer involved with that file, because the file was handled by Rachel for Minister Chagger under the direction of the senior associate deputy minister, Gina Wilson, at the Department of Canadian Heritage. I was no longer involved after that.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

You had no involvement in the period that followed.

[Benoît Robidoux]

I had no direct involvement after April 22.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

All right.

Now I have a question for the minister. You've had 24 hours to check and find out whether WE has given back the full sum that your department gave WE in the first instance. Is the money back in the hands of your department, yes or no?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

What I have learned is that ESDC is in the process of terminating the agreement with WE, and the discussions are ongoing—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Is the money back?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Just let her answer, Mr. Poilievre.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

As the minister, it is not my file. I'm not the lead. Minister Chagger has said today that WE intends to pay all the money back. I understand that as part of the negotiations for the termination of the agreement, the department has outlined to the WE Charity Foundation the process for how they should repay the funds, but it is not—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

So we don't have the money back.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

—I don't have that level of detail. I can't say—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

When will they have their money back?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I can't say either way—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

This is the last question—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Excuse me. My question is very simple. When will taxpayers get their money back? When?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I don't have that detail.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

It's not a detail. It's a lot of money. Millions of dollars is not a detail, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I think the Minister did say she doesn't know the details. Maybe the next minister will. I don't know.

With that, we'll go on to Mr. Fragiskatos.

We will have time for two minutes from the CPC and two minutes from Ms. Koutrakis.

Go ahead, Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here.

I do want to address a falsehood. There's no other way to put it. The opposition continues to peddle it, and we continue to see the perception circulated in media. This is the idea that WE was going to pocket hundreds of millions of dollars from the federal government for the purposes of the Canada student service grant.

On July 28, as you might know, Minister, Craig Kielburger and Marc Kielburger appeared at this committee. In his opening statement, Craig Kielburger said the following:

As per the contribution agreement, WE Charity would only be reimbursed for its costs to build and administer the program. To be clear, there was no financial benefit for the charity. WE Charity would not have received any financial gain from the CSSG program....

That's the end of the quote.

The number that's been put forward is that they would have received a maximum of $43.5 million to build and administer the program.

Minister, my question for you is this: Does what I just read from Craig Kielburger align with your understanding?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

It does.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Yesterday, you made some comments regarding the Canada student service grant that I want to delve into for a moment. You commented on the context. That context is COVID-19, the frame within which decisions are being made at an extremely rapid pace, a pace perhaps unprecedented in modern Canadian political history.

Can you go into that? Could you talk about the speed with which policy is being decided and programs are being created, amended and put forward again? To what extent do you think that process, the speed we're seeing on the part of the federal government in response to COVID-19, explains some of the mistakes that were made, in your view?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

First of all, let me state again that I offer no excuse for this. However, there is a context, and the context, as you said, is the incredible pace of where we were mid-March to mid-April, going into May and even now.

Our COVID committee was meeting every day, sometimes twice a day. Cabinet was meeting weekly. Think of the CERB. We announced a different form of benefit for workers on a Wednesday, and on a Thursday we realized it was going to be too complicated. We corrected our course, and within one week we figured out a way to deliver it, figured out a way to legislate it and then legislated it so we could deliver it three weeks later. Any given day was about PPE, borders, temporary foreign workers, long-term care and the CERB. I can tell you we announced these measures on the 22nd, and I think on the 23rd at four o'clock in the morning I was on a G20 employment ministers' call.

Listen, these are the jobs. We do them, and we have to do them well. Again, it's not an excuse, but there is a context here. I think Canadians are very sensitive to an understanding of this context.

We have always said that we weren't striving for perfect, but I really believe we've delivered. I really believe that Canadians have gotten through this in no small part because of the support we've given them. Again, it hasn't been perfect; we've had to correct our course. But we know this, and we're always ready to correct our course. That's one of the freedoms in this: if you try something and it doesn't work, you can try something else and help somebody. Somebody wasn't included in the first group of people you tried to help, so you figure out how to include them. This was so quick.

Thank you for asking that question.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Minister, I have a final question, on the money that would have gone to the Canada student service grant. Do you have thoughts on where that could go now? I know that different ideas have been put forward through the media, with some commentators saying that it should go to the Canada summer jobs program and others saying that it could go to the Canada service corps. It could also go to low-income and middle-income post-secondary students, in the form of grants, loans or both.

Do you have thoughts on where this money could go? Perhaps the money should be held back because COVID-19 remains with us. From a prudence perspective, perhaps it makes sense to hold off on making any spending decisions with respect to this cash.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I think the sad reality is that we've missed the opportunity to do what we intended to do through the Canada student service grant.

As for programs that could contribute to more opportunities for students, all of us are looking right now at what we can put on the table to enhance, enrich and add to the $8 billion that is already out there and being spent on students. Minister Chagger, obviously, is quarterbacking this, but I'll say it is different now. We are collaborating in what all of us can perhaps offer up. Whether it be jobs or other types of opportunities, what can we do?

This has really been a shift. It's an unfortunate reality that we haven't been able to deliver this last piece to students, but we are absolutely committed to investing more in young people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We will have to end the round there.

We'll now give Mr. Cooper two minutes, and then give two minutes to Ms. Koutrakis. Then the minister will have to go.

We'll be a little over our time, Minister, but we were a little late starting.

Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Robidoux, following the April 18 teleconference, what communications, if any, did you have with Ms. Wernick or Ms. Kovacevic between that date and April 22?