Evidence of meeting #10 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was billion.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Tax Law LLP
I'm sorry. When you say “gaps”, can you maybe enlighten me? What do you mean by that?
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Well, we've spent almost $400 billion more this year than what we're going to be taking in, so somewhere that $400 billion needs to be addressed. Either we need to work on some kind of repayment program or we need to get to the point where we're okay with paying interest on an extra $400 billion.
8:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Tax Law LLP
That's a good point. Thank you for clarifying that.
I think all measures should be on the table to look at, actually, including revenue raisers and targeted revenue raisers, but not without a complete review of how we currently tax and administer our system and what is taxed. I think austerity measures should also be on the table.
That's my personal view.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Thank you, Mr. Moody.
Mr. Lee, I'd like to direct a few questions your way. You've talked about the decrease in the amount of people living at or below the poverty level in our country over the last 40 years. I think that's a point well taken, but you did say that there should be measures taken to adequately address the poor during this time of COVID. Do you have any specifics that you could point out to this committee?
8:15 p.m.
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
Thank you.
As you know, there's a lot of discussion on this right now, and that's why I focused on the universal question. There are discussions about universal pharmacare, and there were discussions up until a week ago about a universal guaranteed annual income.
I think it is an enormous mistake to be going down that road. First of all, most of us don't need that kind of assistance. I put this out as a philosophical statement to guide policy-making. We should be focusing on those people who need help, and it is not 100% of the population.
The Economist magazine said that we're in the 90% economy. That's 90% of us. If you look at the employment numbers, it really falls down to that. Most people in the economy—about 90% of us—are doing okay, but 10% of us are doing terribly, so we should be focusing on that 10%. We know who they are. They are in airlines. They are in accommodation. They are in restaurants. They are in entertainment, in theatre and that sort of thing.
8:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Falk Conservative Provencher, MB
Okay.
I think I probably have time for one more question.
Could you identify what that support might look like for some of those industries that you have identified? I agree with you that the majority of people are okay, but there are a few targeted industries that have really been hit hard and need something.
8:15 p.m.
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
I agree. Airlines would be at the top of the list, and oil and gas. I don't think we should allow—I've said this in some of my public comments—ideology, which is the word I'm using, to say that some industries are somehow inappropriate because they are, in the view of some people, emitting GHGs. We should not be letting that enter into our calculus.
There are large numbers of Canadians who work in those industries—about 10%. We have a million more people unemployed right now compared to pre-COVID numbers, and we should not be making distinctions about what industry they work in. They all need our help, so we should be looking at those industries—oil and gas, airlines, hotels, accommodation and the entertainment industry—for targeted assistance for them.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, both.
We'll turn to Mr. Sorbara who will be followed by Mr. Savard-Tremblay and then Ms. Blaney.
Mr. Sorbara.
8:15 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's great to be back on the committee this evening with everyone.
Thank you to everyone who has presented tonight. Your presentations were all very thoughtful and touched on subject areas that are important as we move forward.
Mr. Lee, thank you. As always, I appreciate your comments. Funnily enough, the September 10 commentary by the Bank of Canada governor, charts 6 and 7, which you referenced.... I was very happy to see your reference to the work that's been done to decrease levels of poverty in Canada. We had two measures in our platform, the 10% increase in old age security and then the very targeted increase in the CPP survivor's benefit, which would need co-operation from the provinces. This would aid many single seniors when someone passes away. That would be a large measure.
I look at the official poverty dashboard that came out in February 2020 this year and the decline in poverty rates across the country, especially when we assumed power; the increase in the Canada child benefit; the 10% increase in the GIS; and then the economy creating over a million jobs. These are great things.
If you had to name two policy measures that we could implement on a going forward basis, what would they be? Be very quick, please.
8:20 p.m.
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
Targeted day care. I think there's wide support in the country for day care. The question is are we going to give it to wealthy lawyers or accountants or professors...?
December 7th, 2020 / 8:20 p.m.
Associate Professor, Sprott School of Business, Carleton University, As an Individual
The second is I think that we've got to revisit the CERB and make sure it is not a penalty on employers. I'm talking to too many employers who are finding that the CERB is preventing people from returning to work, because—I'm sorry that people will be upset at this—there are not enough incentives in CERB for people to return to work, and it has probably become overly generous in the compensation it provides.
8:20 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you for your commentary.
Mr. Moody, thank you for your ongoing work in the tax community. I'm very well aware and understand where you're coming from. I was part of the committee that put forward, along with the chair, the recommendation for what I would call an “overhaul” of our tax system, looking for a broad and comprehensive review, to make the tax system even more efficient, simpler, and broadening the base, if I could call it that, while lowering the overall tax incidence on Canadians, which I think would be a great step forward.
Again along the lines of what I asked Mr. Lee, if you can bring two suggestions, because we are coming out of COVID, what would they be?
The vaccine is on its way, the economy is recovering. Indeed, on a GDP basis, we're within 5% of.... With the unemployment numbers last week, I think we're still down several hundred thousand Canadians out of work, especially in the sectors where we can't socially distance: transportation, hospitality, tourism.
Mr. Moody, what would you recommend?
8:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Tax Law LLP
In the short term?
8:20 p.m.
Liberal
8:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer and Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Tax Law LLP
In the immediate short term, I'm glad to see that the wage subsidy has been extended. I think the government should be open to continuing that beyond June if need be. That's number one.
Number two, which won't be popular among certain...but I do think a reduction of the corporate tax rate for employers would be helpful in the short term to encourage employment.
8:20 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Okay. Thank you for commenting on the extension of the CEWS, which has assisted over three million employees, and over 100,000 employers utilize it. The CECRA or the new rental program, which is getting some strong takeup, is again targeted to renters, which is great to see. Obviously the CERB was implemented for a purpose and many of the programs to build that bridge and build the floor to get us through to the spring, when the sun will shine, and to brighter days.
Ms. Krause, thank you for your presentation.
I know that through the emergency community support fund, we provided significant funds to organizations across the country. I wanted to see how your organization and organizations in Alberta received those funds and accessed some of the programs we put in place—which is obviously a trend we don't want to see increasing.
8:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Centre for Sexuality
The emergency money that went out to the non-profit sector was fast and efficient. I think one of the most important parts about that program was that the money was filtered through the United Way, community foundations and the Red Cross, which meant they were able to look at the needs in their local communities, the needs on the ground.
We were fortunate to get support to further support our LGBTQ communities that have been really struggling. I think it was a great mechanism to get some really needed money out the door fast.
8:20 p.m.
Liberal
8:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, all.
We go now to Mr. Savard-Tremblay for five minutes, followed by Ms. Blaney.
8:20 p.m.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all the speakers for their presentations.
I would like to ask Mr. Bouka a question.
Mr. Bouka, I read your recommendations with great interest. I also listened to you with a great deal of interest.
Your first recommendation concerns the improvement of seniors' health and welfare. With respect to means, do you think, for example, that a pension increase might be a satisfactory solution to improve seniors' purchasing power, given the considerable isolation and difficulties this category of people experience?
Incidentally, last week, a majority of members in the House of Commons voted in favour of an increase in health transfers to the provinces. The National Assembly of Quebec has also requested it.
Do you think that might also be a way forward in achieving this objective, which is your first recommendation?
8:20 p.m.
Executive-Vice-President and Treasurer, African Leadership Force
Thank you for that question.
Yes, with regard to seniors, the measures you just cited are very good. They hadn't been announced when I prepared our recommendations. However, since you ask me the question, I'd suggest you distinguish between seniors who are very rich and may not need support and others who were manual labourers or not senior public servants and aren't in a solid financial position.
As to measures that should be taken, perhaps you should find a way to cut spending somewhere in order to distinguish between seniors who already have sufficient means and those who really don't have a lot of money. For example, those who are required to return federal benefits don't need support.
That's what I would say on that subject. I don't know if I've answered your question.
8:25 p.m.
Bloc
Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Yes, you answered it in large part. Thank you.
You mentioned measures that had been announced. Unfortunately, they weren't. A majority in the House nevertheless expressed support for the measures, either in the form of improvements to seniors' pensions or health transfer increases. We know that health costs are exploding in the provinces and that the population is aging. The provinces have a responsibility to hire ever larger numbers of doctors, nurses and orderlies.
Do you think the money should be transferred instead from Ottawa to the provinces?
8:25 p.m.
Executive-Vice-President and Treasurer, African Leadership Force
I have to admit I'm not an expert on political relations between the provinces and the federal government.
What I could simply say is that I see a difference between a large class of persons who do not have the necessary means and those who have considerable means.
I admit, however, that I'm not very clear on how the relationship works between the provinces and the federal government.