Finance Committee on March 11th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

That is correct.

Go ahead.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Let me just say a quick point on the jobs numbers, because I think those are something that all of us are deeply concerned about. I sure am. Let me say that today 636,000 Canadians who had a job before COVID struck don't have a job.

I think the most urgent priority of our government and this entire House needs to be to provide the economic support to get them back to work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We go back to Mr. Fast.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, she didn't answer the question.

Yes or no, is the debt ceiling going up by $663 billion?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

I'm delighted to answer that question, Mr. Fast. Yes, the limit that we are seeking with Bill C-14 is $1.831 trillion.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

That figure is very exact, so you must know what it's going to be spent on, what you're going to use it for. Can you tell us exactly how that additional $663 billion will be deployed?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

As you know very well, Mr. Fast, having served in cabinet, a borrowing authority increase is not the same as spending authority. What it does is set a ceiling for how much the government can spend.

In terms of the composition of that number and how we got there, I would like to turn the attention of all committee members to page 141 and chart A2.3 in the fall economic statement. I can hold it up to show you guys the page. That has a very specific breakdown of how we got to that number.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Chair, Ms. Freeland didn't actually answer the question. I want her to explain to Canadians the $664 billion of additional borrowing that she is asking Parliament for. Where will it be allocated, and how will it be spent?

Don't point to a chart. Tell Canadians who are watching this why you should receive effectively a blank cheque for $663 billion?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Fast, I know that Canadians are really smart and really sophisticated and I urge everyone who's listening to this to look at page 141, chart A2.3, where how that borrowing authority amount is composed is laid out very specifically.

I want to address something very precise here. The increase in the borrowing authority is in no way a blank cheque. Every single expenditure by the government needs to be authorized by Parliament. The borrowing authority sets a transparent and accountable maximum limit as to how much the government can borrow.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

We know, Ms. Freeland, that in 2017 your government set a debt ceiling, which still left about $200 billion of room to spend. You spent all of that, and then the pandemic hit. You spent beyond that because of the support that you quite rightly provided to Canadians, and by the way, those items you articulated, we strongly support that support for Canadians.

What we don't support is increasing the debt ceiling by $663 billion without knowing exactly what that borrowing will be used for. You're saying you want a line of credit, a $663 billion additional line of credit, but you're not going to tell us exactly where you're going to spend it.

I'm going to give you a chance again to explain to Canadians where you are going to be spending that money. How will you spend it, when will you spend it and are you going to spend all of it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If you could wrap that up in about 50 seconds, that would be great, Minister. We'll go to the next round.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Let me just say to Mr. Fast that I have far too much respect for him, and I really do have a lot of respect for him, to think that he really believes the borrowing authority is in any way equivalent to a blank cheque or a line of credit.

What the borrowing authority limit does is it sets a limit on the maximum amount a government may borrow. There is a quite separate process, which this committee is intimately involved with, for debating and authorizing the specific spending that the government undertakes, and I look forward to having that discussion with all of you.

Again, for interested Canadians and committee members, look at chart A2.3 for the composition of how we got to that $1.8 trillion number for the borrowing authority limit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much.

We turn to Mr. Fragiskatos for three minutes and Ms. Dzerowicz for three.

Peter.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's great to see you, Minister. Thank you for being here.

I want to ask you a question about pandemic preparedness. It's great to see that Bill C-14 takes this seriously. As we know and as we saw with COVID-19, pandemics can strike at any time and I think we have to be on guard and on watch for future pandemics.

I'm reading directly from the fall economic statement where it says that $1.5 billion is proposed to procure PPE and provide warehousing and logistics support so that PPE can be delivered quickly, when needed, along with medical supplies to provinces and territories and indigenous communities, as well as to ensure the readiness of the national emergency stockpile.

Could you speak to the importance of that? I can't tell you the number of constituents who, over the past year, have asked what the government is doing to prepare for, heaven forbid, the next pandemic. What can we do to further ensure that Canadians are safe in that regard?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Fragiskatos, thank you very much for that question. I agree with you. It is a very important one and it is one that is very much on the minds of all Canadians.

You have referred to PPE. That's an important element. Clearly, vaccines are another very important element.

Let me speak to a third issue, which I think has become very clear to Canadians in the course of this pandemic, and that is biomanufacturing capacity here in Canada. We have fantastic researchers. We have fantastic life scientists in our amazing country. What we don't have enough of is the ability to actually manufacture the vaccines that they play a central role in developing. I'm thinking of Acuitas as an example, an amazing B.C. company that plays a key role in the development and the production of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

One of the things that our government is working on, in close collaboration with provinces and territories across the country, is stepping up our game and investing in biomanufacturing across the country, whether it is VIDO-InterVac in Saskatchewan, whether it is Medicago or whether it is the NRC. I think that's an effort that all of us will agree is important and that we need to continue down that path.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

It's great to see. I'm especially interested in the consultations that Minister Champagne has been carrying out, which I understand wrap up tomorrow, with the pharmaceutical sector to ensure that we have more of a domestic capacity, whether it's on PPE or vaccines. I think this is a lesson learned, not just for Canada but for all democracies. The domestic ability will be very important. However, it's great to see in Bill C-14 that this is being taken seriously.

Mr. Chair, I'll yield the remainder of my time to Ms. Dzerowicz.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Dzerowicz, the floor is yours.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister for being here with us, and thank you for your leadership.

My first question is regarding child care. For far too long, Canadians, women, have been calling for national child care. If we're looking to ensure full participation, or at least maximum participation, of our women, and indeed any parent with children, we need access to affordable, accessible child care.

How does Bill C-14 and the fall economic statement address this issue?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you very much, Ms. Dzerowicz. It's great to see you.

That is such an important question, and in my opening remarks I spoke about the additional support that Bill C-14 would give to families with young children. I added a personal plea—not in my written remarks—because I have to say, my youngest child is now 11 and it is challenging having children, even in elementary school, in a pandemic. Virtual school is hard for kids, but my heart just goes out to all the young families in Canada with a child under six. It is so hard. I have had people, constituents, neighbours, just crying when they talk about how difficult it is.

As you know, one terrible consequence we've seen is women quitting their jobs, dropping out of the labour force because they just can't keep it all going. Bill C-14 will give those families with the youngest children in our country a bit of extra help. As we said in the fall economic statement, we really believe now is the moment for us as a country, after 50 years of talking about it, to finally put our shoulder to the wheel and to build universal early learning and child care across Canada.

Here, I do think all of us have to offer a chapeau, figuratively, to our colleagues from Quebec who have shown the way. They have shown that affordable, high-quality universal child care has a huge economic impact. Quebec has a much higher participation of women in the labour force than the rest of Canada, about 4% higher. There is a great economic benefit, not to mention that it makes life so much easier for families with young children.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We are going to have to end that round there.

We'll go to Mr. Ste-Marie. At the end of the six minutes, we will suspend for the vote.

Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Madam Minister. I am delighted to see you here with our committee.

I'd like to begin with a few comments. I am very pleased that Bill C-14 is under study in committee today. Unless I'm mistaken, it's the first economic bill to be debated by the Standing Committee on Finance since the last election. We understand that it's urgent to act in a pandemic, but we've also found that it's beneficial to everyone for bills to be studied in committee, and that doing so enables Parliament, as the legislator, to perform its role effectively.

Bill C-14 implements a number of measures that were announced in the 2020 fall economic statement, which created great expectations for the next budget. Among other things, you mentioned a recovery plan of between $70 billion and $100 billion.

Madam Minister, I was really expecting this budget to be tabled in the final week of March during which we will be sitting. According to the media, this isn't going to happen.

Can you confirm that your budget will not be tabled in March?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for your question and for your hard work on all the economic issues. I truly appreciate it.

I don't want to announce the date of the budget today, but I can assure you here in committee that there will be a budget this spring. I agree with the members of this committee that it's important for our country. I spoke with you about your ideas on the budget, and would like to tell the members and financial spokespersons for each party that I'm very open to hearing what they have to suggest in connection with the budget. I believe that the budget needs to be for the whole country, because the pandemic has been affecting the entire country.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you for your response. It's much appreciated. Indeed, let's hope, with respect, Madam Minister, that it's a budget for all Canadians and not only a budget designed for an election campaign.

In the fall economic statement and in your opening address, you pointed out that 80% of extraordinary spending tied to COVID-19 came from the federal government rather than the provinces and municipalities. I would nevertheless like to remind you that it's a pandemic, a health crisis, and that health spending is covered to the tune of almost 80% by the provinces. In my view, the federal government is not pulling its weight. Since the last election, and even beforehand, the Bloc Québécois has been speaking out on behalf of the Quebec consensus, and now on behalf of the other provinces, to increase the federal share of health financing to 35%.

Is this a measure you are envisaging?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Ste-Marie.

With respect to support for families, individuals and businesses, the federal government has been there for Quebecers and all Canadians. We were happy for Canada to be in a financial position that made it possible to do so.

I would also like to point out that in the summer, we gave an additional $19 billion directly to the provinces and territories under the Safe Restart Agreement and an additional $2 billion for reopening schools. The safe restart funding was in large measure for health spending by the provinces and territories to combat COVID-19.

As I mentioned in my opening address, Bill C-14 will provide more funding to the provinces. There will also be measures to help support residential and long-term care centres, or CHSLDs, because we understand just how important they are.

Last Friday, I had a discussion with the provincial and territorial ministers of finance, including Mr. Girard, Quebec's minister of finance. I was very happy, moreover, to be able to thank him publicly for his sincere and frank collaboration. He's an excellent colleague. We discussed what else the federal government might be able to do to help the provinces and territories, particularly with respect to combatting COVID-19. I told the ministers of finance…

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We are going to have to end it there.

We are at the end of time for Gabriel, and we're also out of time, Minister.