Evidence of meeting #44 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Garima Dwivedi  Director General, Resolutions and Partnerships, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Leane Walsh  Director, Fiscal Policy and Investment Readiness, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs
Eric Malara  Director, Governance and Reporting, Office of Infrastructure of Canada
Andre Arbour  Acting Director General, Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Frances McRae  Assistant Deputy Minister, Small Business and Marketplace Services, Department of Industry
Steve Watton  Manager, Policy, Canada Small Business Financing Program, Department of Industry
Goran Vragovic  Director General, Assessment and Revenue Management Portfolio, Canada Border Services Agency
Yannick Mondy  Director, Trade and Tariff Policy, International Trade Policy Division, International Trade and Finance Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Toby Hoffmann  Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice
Anna Dekker  Acting Senior Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice
Stephen Scott  Director General, Strategy and Performance, National Research Council of Canada
Christine Jodoin  Director General, Biologics Manufacturing Centre Project, National Research Council of Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Alexandre Roger
Christopher Duschenes  Director General, Economic Policy Development, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services
Selena Beattie  Executive Director, People Management and Community Engagement, Workplace Policies and Services Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Michael Morin  Director General, Policy and Strategic Directions, Public Service Commission
Lorraine Pelot  Director General, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Barbara Moran  Director General, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
David Charter  Director, Workplace Information and Research Division, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Benoit Cadieux  Director, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Frances McCormick  Executive Director, Integrated Labour System, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Atiq Rahman  Assistant Deputy Minister, Learning Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Kristen Underwood  Director General, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Kevin Wagdin  Director, Seniors and Pensions Policy Secretariat, Income Security and Social Development Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

3:35 p.m.

Yannick Mondy Director, Trade and Tariff Policy, International Trade Policy Division, International Trade and Finance Branch, Canada Border Services Agency

Thank you.

Maybe I'll provide an example. Importers that are linked with a foreign party will normally have access to a price paid for their good well before it is exported to Canada, therefore being able to use a prior sale up in their supply chain. For example, a U.S.-based company that has affiliates in Canada that are the final purchasers will be able to purchase from, let's say—I'm giving an example—China, pay a certain point, and declare that as the value for export rather than the value of the Canadian importer that is importing that good, that final sale. That's the example where there's a discrepancy, because certain importers have knowledge of a prior price that is paid up in their supply chain in a prior transaction rather than the final transaction that triggers, as Goran was explaining, the actual export to Canada.

What we're trying to establish with this definition is that “sold for export” to a purchaser in Canada is, under the treaty and under the Customs Act, the value that purchasers in Canada must use for the purpose of putting a value on goods imported to Canada. That sets, of course, the value of custom duties and taxes to be paid. If you have, basically, knowledge of a price that you can use up in the supply chain, it will result in the under-collection of revenue simply because the valuation for the purpose of custom duties and taxes then becomes lower as well.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

So are you trying to capture freight costs, and all that sort of thing, from someone who is doing their own...? No?

3:40 p.m.

Director, Trade and Tariff Policy, International Trade Policy Division, International Trade and Finance Branch, Canada Border Services Agency

Yannick Mondy

No. Those would be all subject to the same rules.

Price paid and payable is something slightly different. It doesn't play with the free on board element.

I'm going to use a book as an example. I'm a U.S. worldwide library. I decide to pay China $1 for that book. It's going to be sold at the end of the day. The last price of export to a purchaser in Canada, who might be me, could be $10, but it's been bought for $1 by the U.S. affiliate, and it's being shipped directly to Canada. Technically, under the law right now, it can be interpreted as a $1-value for the purpose of customs valuation. Meanwhile, the purchaser in Canada has paid $10 for that book. I'm the purchaser, which means the valuation of the good should be based on that $10, not $1.

I don't know if that helps to clarify.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

Yes, it's a little bit better.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

That's pretty good.

With that, I see no further questions.

Thank you, both, very much.

We will move on to division 26, the Judges Act. It's an amendment to the act.

Go ahead, Mr. Hoffmann.

3:40 p.m.

Toby Hoffmann Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Good afternoon, members of the committee.

I'm here with my colleagues, Mr. Patrick Xavier and Ms. Anna Dekker. We're here to speak about divisions 26 and 27.

Just by way of a brief introduction on division 26, the purpose of this amendment is to stop the pension accrual of a judge who is the subject of a report that's referred by the Canadian Judicial Council to the Minister of Justice.

By way of background, this is being proposed because there has been a concern or perception in the past that some judges who—and I should be clear on this—have a right to challenge these kinds of findings have commenced litigation in order to ensure that their pensionable service continues to accrue.

What this proposed amendment would do, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee, is stop the accrual of that pensionable service on the day that a report is issued by the Canadian Judicial Council recommending a judge's removal from office.

Again, at its base, this is being proposed to continue to ensure public confidence in the judiciary.

I'll stop there. Please, if you have any questions, myself or my colleague, Patrick Xavier, would be happy to answer you.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you very much, Mr. Hoffman.

Ms. Jansen.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

Is this kind of the idea that many Canadians have been mentioning with regard to what's happening with the Attorney General? Is it the same concept?

3:40 p.m.

Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Toby Hoffmann

I'm sorry, Ms. Jansen. When you say the Attorney General, could you just clarify that for me a little bit?

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Are you talking about the Governor General?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

The Governor General. There we go.

Sorry, I'm new to the job.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

No, this is to do with the judiciary.

Go ahead, Mr. Hoffman.

3:40 p.m.

Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Toby Hoffmann

This specifically has to do with the judiciary.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

All right, thank you for that.

I believe you're on for the next one as well: division 27, new judicial resources.

3:40 p.m.

Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Toby Hoffmann

Thank you again, Mr. Chair.

Yes, division 27, as you said, concerns new judicial resources. Essentially, in the BIA this year, there have been a number of positions—13 in total—that have been allocated to different jurisdictions across the country.

The whole purpose of these amendments is as a result of a standardized process that I and my officials engage in with the different jurisdictions. They submit business cases. We review those cases. We assess those cases. We assist the jurisdictions in building those cases. Then we provide advice to the minister, and the minister takes our advice and goes on to make recommendations.

Essentially, what these amendments do—and this is not a new thing—is increase the complement of different courts across the country.

With that, I'll stop there. Again, we welcome any questions that you may have.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Fast.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Thank you.

Just so you know, I do support the changes to the Judges Act.

In terms of new resources, there are four provinces, I believe, that are receiving additional resources: Newfoundland, Ontario, British Columbia and Saskatchewan. Am I correct?

3:45 p.m.

Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Toby Hoffmann

That's correct.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

You mentioned that there's a business case that supports the recommendations, so this is not just a request coming that we want some more judges and automatically they're sent or placed on the bench.

3:45 p.m.

Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Toby Hoffmann

That's correct. There are some rigours to the process, Mr. Fast.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

All right.

With respect to Newfoundland, the appointment of additional resources was triggered by something called geographics structuring. Can you tell me what that was and why would it call for additional judges or an additional judge?

3:45 p.m.

Acting Director and General Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Toby Hoffmann

Thank you, Mr. Fast.

I'm going to turn to my colleague, Ms. Dekker, but I think you're aware that there was an associate chief justice who was appointed to the Supreme Court of Newfoundland and Labrador—just to clarify that.

I'll ask Ms. Dekker—who I must say has been an expert and has been involved in this process in the past—to try to answer your question.

3:45 p.m.

Anna Dekker Acting Senior Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

The associate chief justice position for Newfoundland and Labrador will assist the current chief justice to provide long-term, efficient and effective administration to the court. Part of the decision to ask for one was the fact that Newfoundland and Labrador does have such vast geography and the way that they have organized their court, which is within the jurisdiction of the province, the province gets to decide how to structure its courts and how to administer in them. They have divided their trial division into a family and a general division and along seven judicial centres. That was simply one consideration that was taken into account as part of the request for judicial resources from that court.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Okay, so it wasn't just an action on the part of the provincial government to structure or restructure geographically. There are other elements that also contributed to the decision to add judicial resources.

3:45 p.m.

Acting Senior Counsel, Judicial Affairs Section, Public Law and Legislative Services Sector, Department of Justice

Anna Dekker

Absolutely. That is one factor, but since every jurisdiction is different, we have to take into account the unique aspects of each one. In this case, or in the case of any associate chief justice position, they help provide leadership to the court, and for example, could allow the chief justice, if too much of their time has been spent simply administering and assigning cases, and so on, to have the opportunity to continue to hear cases and be a part of that important work of the court as well.