Finance Committee on May 18th, 2021

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Perfect. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you all.

We'll go to Mr. Ste-Marie, followed by Mr. Julian.

Gabriel.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to acknowledge the witnesses. I would like to thank them for being here and for their presentations.

My questions are for Ms. Potter.

Thank you again for your presentation.

I'll start where Ms. Dzerowicz left off. You would support the use of a vaccine passport for foreign tourists entering Canada. Is that right? Could you clarify your position on this issue again?

[Beth Potter]

Thank you for the question. I'll respond in English.

Our position is that in order to enter the country.... We want to make it easy for travellers to enter the country, so there needs to be a process in place for those who have been vaccinated and travellers who have not been vaccinated.

Globally and in the work I've been doing at the World Travel and Tourism Council's table, it's proof of vaccination in the form of a health certificate, a vaccine passport or a green check, which the EU is using. It's some kind of indicator that a person has been fully vaccinated and they can enter a country, carry on and travel within it as usual.

For those who have not been vaccinated, we are suggesting that you will still want to test, using a PCR test before departure and a rapid test on arrival. Then they can carry on. Only introduce quarantine should there be a positive test result.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

I now want to talk about the income support measures for businesses in your industry included in Bill C-30. I'm thinking, of course, of the Canada emergency wage subsidy and the Canada emergency rent subsidy. In your presentation, you said that the measures included in Bill C-30 were insufficient, given the reality of your industry, which is largely based on seasonal activities and jobs. I gathered that the next step for the Canada emergency wage subsidy and the Canada emergency rent subsidy set out in Bill C-30 was insufficient. Is that what you said?

[Beth Potter]

The proposed reduction of the wage subsidy and the rent subsidy starts in July, and this is the wrong time for the tourism industry. It's like this: Either we open the borders and allow travel to resume so that businesses can get back on track, start generating revenue and not have to take advantage of subsidies, or we subsidize them at the level they're being subsidized now until such time as we open the borders and people can get back to work and start generating revenue.

Some are going to take longer than others. I mean, Transport Canada has banned cruising until March 2022, so some businesses will be shuttered until next spring. It's not right to cut them off at this point in time.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

So you're suggesting that the support measures be maintained at a sufficient level for a longer period for the most affected sectors.

If this isn't done and the bill is passed as it stands, what do you think the economic impact would be on the members of your industry?

[Beth Potter]

Prior to COVID, we were a $105-billion-a-year industry, contributing 2.3% to the nation's GDP. We know that 60% of tourism businesses across the country have told us that the access to the wage subsidy and the rent subsidy is why they are still in existence, are ready to welcome guests back and are ready to contribute to the economy again. If we lose 60% of $105 billion, that's over 60 billion dollars' worth of contribution to the GDP.

It also represents hundreds of thousands of jobs. We have displaced 500,000 people over these past 15 months, many of whom we've lost to other sectors. They've had to find additional work. We want to get back to employing almost two million Canadians.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

The situation that you're describing is no laughing matter. I appreciate the information. I understand that it will take more than the current content of Bill C-30 to support your industry, which contributes so much to the economy. Duly noted.

You also spoke about cyclical sectors. For example, you referred to festivals, for which there are tailored measures. The issue with festivals is that they generate most of their annual revenue in one or two weeks, if not in a few weeks. I gather that the support measures for these sectors should be extended until the companies or events generate their normal revenue. Is that right?

That's my last question.

[Beth Potter]

Yes. That is correct. We are looking for ongoing support for the festivals and live events sector, support not only for the people who put on those events but also the artists and vendors who participate in the events.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, all.

Mr. Julian is next, followed by Mr. Fast.

Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks so much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to each and every one of our witnesses for coming forward today. Your testimony is very important. We all hope that you and your families continue to be safe and healthy during this devastating third wave that is sweeping the country.

I'd like to start with you, Mr. Aylward. Thank you so much for coming out today. Thanks to your members for being frontline heroes through the course of this pandemic in a variety of different occupations. You have Public Service Alliance of Canada members who are serving despite the dangers. I think that's one of the elements Canadians will remember—the courage, commitment and dedication of frontline workers, of health care workers, of first responders.

I think Canadians will also continue to be shocked by the profiteering that is taking place during this pandemic—banks with $40 billion of profits, hundreds of billions of dollars in liquidity supports and billionaires with over $80 billion in profits. In the long-term care sector, there was unbelievable profiteering during this time, with executive bonuses, dividends and stock buybacks taking place while people were dying in these homes. Just a few blocks from my home, on the traditional unceded territory of the Qayqayt First Nation and Coast Salish peoples in New Westminster, B.C., is a Revera home where over 30 people died. It was kept quiet for well over a week.

These are the kinds of stories and tragedies that I think Canadians will remember. Is this not a profound wake-up call for how we treat our seniors and the for-profit motive in the long-term care sector that has led to so much devastation and death and tragedy during the course of this pandemic?

[Chris Aylward]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Absolutely. As you know, Revera, as I said in my statement, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the public service pension plan, which we find absolutely appalling. It's worth quite a bit of money, actually. Yes, we want our members' pension plan invested in the best interest of the members, but we also want those monies invested in the public interest as well. When we have pension plan money invested in Revera, which has an absolutely appalling record of health care, we find it shameful.

We've called on the government, and I personally have called on the President of the Treasury Board, to start having discussions around transferring that to the provinces, having those bilateral discussions with the provinces, with the health authorities in the various provinces and territories, so that we can transform that into publicly owned rather than for-profit privately owned. As I said and as you stated, the record is absolutely appalling. To have a Crown corporation of the government investing in those kinds of things, we just can't understand it, to be quite honest.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Isn't it a broader question as well? If we're talking about health care, what we've basically established as a society is a strong health care system. There are still lots of holes. I'll come back to that in a moment. The issue of long-term care is making sure that long-term care is not-for-profit and that the primary focus isn't executive bonuses and dividend payments but rather the care of the seniors who are entrusted to those homes.

Isn't this a broader question that goes beyond your very valid and eloquent point about having Revera being taken in as a publicly managed facility and network? It also goes to the whole long-term care network for profit that has not distinguished itself—quite the contrary—over the course of this pandemic, with so many cases of misplaced resources that have led to bonuses and dividends on the one hand and tragedy and death on the other, not only for residents but also for workers.

[Chris Aylward]

Absolutely. When you see that, when you see bonuses being paid out, when you see executive bonuses and performance bonuses being paid out in the tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you have thousands of people dying in those facilities, I can't see how we as Canadians would be able to continue with this.

It's not only that. Revera is also involved in tax havens in the United Kingdom. That's a well-known fact as well. Here we have a Crown corporation investing monies into Revera and also involved in tax havens in the United Kingdom. It's absolutely astounding to us. We're calling on the government to start having those bilateral discussions with the provinces and territories—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

This is your last question, Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you for that. I mentioned the holes in the health care system. The Public Service Alliance of Canada has taken a strong stand to put in place public universal pharmacare. This bill basically betrays an election promise Mr. Trudeau made in 2019. There's no provision for public universal pharmacare.

How important is it for Canadians to have in place public universal pharmacare?

[Chris Aylward]

It's extremely important. Even our own members say it: When are we going to get this pharmacare? I mean, there was a commission installed by this government. That commission said we need a national pharmacare program in this country, and unfortunately....

Look, I know that the provinces and territories are not quite on board with this ship, but the longer we delay any kind of implementation of a national pharmacare program, Canadians will suffer. As I said in my statement, no one should be made to try to make the decision of whether they will be paying their rent today or picking up their prescription.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, all.

Mr. Fast is next, followed by Mr. Fraser.

Ed, you have five minutes.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair,

Mr. Moody, you quoted Kevin Page as saying that budgets are fiscal plans. Is this a sustainable fiscal plan?

[Kim G.C. Moody]

I presume you mean the budget.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Yes.

[Kim G.C. Moody]

The short answer is that I don't believe it is. Certainly the economist friends I have don't believe it is. If there is, I'd like to see it. Frankly, I'm a little frightened by the fact that this, presumably, is a plan.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Is there anything in the budget that you see would suggest that there is any kind of plan to return to balance?