Finance Committee on June 17th, 2021

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Yes, but I'm asking you.

[Serge Bilodeau]

You will understand that I cannot testify and make assumptions about things I do not know. All I can confirm, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, is that I do not know these companies, I have never heard the names of these companies and I do not know the people involved.

I know that the firm was asked, and my former colleague, who is responsible for taxation in Canada, answered it.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

She actually didn't answer it, and we just passed a motion to have her answer it.

So let me confirm what you just told me: to your knowledge, there is no connection between KPMG and Shashqua, Katar, Sceax, and Spatha. Did I understand correctly?

[Serge Bilodeau]

I don't know them, and the firm answered that it had no connection with those companies.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I find it curious that you don't just say “yes, you're right”.

[Serge Bilodeau]

Look, I'm strongly encouraging this committee to investigate the matter. If it appears that there has been fraud, that's not right and I would encourage your committee to continue its investigation. KPMG representatives will answer your questions, as they always have.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you for that thought, but I find your way of answering rather curious. I am just asking you to confirm that, to your knowledge, there is no link between the sword companies and KPMG. Your answer goes around and around and ends up back at your statement. It's as if there's something you don't want us to know, and I find that worrisome.

[Serge Bilodeau]

No.

Mr. Ste‑Marie, I probably wasn't clear enough. In fact, there are two answers to your question.

First, there is my own personal answer, which regards my work as a partner and non‑partner at the firm. I believe that I clearly said that I don't know these companies and I don't have any ties with them.

Now, the second answer is KPMG's. As my colleague said in her previous appearance, efforts were made to look for ties with those companies across the firm as a whole, but nothing was found.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Very well, thank you.

I still want to add that the KPMG representatives said that they looked over the past ten years, whereas all of this started far before then. That's why we're reaching out to them again for answers.

I would like you to speak on your own behalf, not on behalf of KPMG.

[Serge Bilodeau]

Okay, perfect.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I understand that there are no ties.

I also take it that you don't personally know anyone who, whether closely or remotely, worked with, had ties with or contributed to the operations of those companies with swords in their names: Shashqua, Katar, Sceax and Spatha. Is that correct?

[Serge Bilodeau]

Exactly.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

All right. Very well, thank you.

I'd like to talk to you about the Weinberg, Norshield and Mount Real scandal.

To the best of your knowledge, did KPMG have any close or remote ties to the money managed and stolen by Mr. Weinberg, Norshield and Mount Real?

[Serge Bilodeau]

I will say the same thing that I said earlier: there are two parts to your question.

Personally speaking, I believe that I was pretty clear. I have no knowledge of this case and I've never worked on it. In fact, I'm learning more about it piece by piece this afternoon.

As for the answer that relates to KPMG Canada as a whole, my colleague answered that question. She said that the firm has no ties with the case.

You understand, Mr. Ste‑Marie, that I can only confirm what I've read. I can't confirm things that I'm unaware of.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Yes, I understand. The real purpose of my questions is to determine whether you personally had any knowledge of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

This will be your last question, Gabriel.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you for your answers.

Do you have any knowledge of Parrhesia? Did you at any point have any ties, close or distant, to this company? Do you know anyone that did business with Parrhesia? Is it possible that KPMG had ties to it?

[Serge Bilodeau]

I'll give you the same answer as before. The first time that I heard about Parrhesia was in the media. I have zero knowledge of this company. With regard to KPMG, my colleague covered the topic, and I trust KPMG.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Julian, who will be followed by Ms. Jansen.

Mr. Julian, you have six minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your patience, Mr. Bilodeau. Given the technical difficulties, we weren't able to ask all our questions. We'll surely have to ask you to appear before the committee another time.

Here is my first question that I would like to ask you. What was the most senior position that you held at KPMG?

[Serge Bilodeau]

I was a partner. There are now two categories of partners. However, when I was a partner, there was a long period where there was just one level of partners.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Weren't you the senior vice‑president of the tax division?

[Serge Bilodeau]

Yes. In 2014, when I was 58 or 59, I decided to slow down and no longer work as a partner. I stepped down, but I maintained ties with KPMG. I continued on as a consultant with a vice‑president title.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

So, you were the senior vice‑president of the tax division. That's an impressive title.

And you're telling us that, as senior vice‑president of the tax division, you were in no way part of the risk management committee.

[Serge Bilodeau]

Exactly.