Finance Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Beech, I think it's clear that these blockades, these illegal blockades, had an impact on the Canadian economy. This is post facto. We know that we've lost hundreds of millions of dollars of trade because of this. What we're looking at here is how to make sure that what we're doing going forward isn't going to negatively affect the Canadian financial system. We already know what happened. Let's go forward with, not an analysis, but “what is going to happen if we do this?” That is the scope of this study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We have MP Lawrence and then MP Beech.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I understand this exact issue is being studied by public safety and another committee, so it would be redundantly redundant to study it here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Go ahead, MP Beech.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

I actually don't think it's redundantly redundant. I think that this is actually an important aspect of this very important study for a number of reasons. Let's also not forget that there is an entire different committee that is going to be struck to examine emergency measures. It's going to be made up of parliamentarians and it's going to examine the full scope of these measures. I hope that this study could help positively contribute to that discussion.

But with regard to the financing of illegal blockades, I think it is important to understand how we came to have these emergency measures in the first place and what exactly has been happening on the ground, and then realize who is affected by these measures and how. If we don't understand the people who have been raising money, what they've been using that money for, how they've been utilizing that money and how they've been raising that money.... I've heard an unbelievable amount of variance and different causes and reasons for this money, everything from “investigative journalist” to people who have all kinds of different causes coming in and justifying their reason for this.

Those are all the types of people who are going to be affected by these emergency measures, so in order for us to understand whether or not the measures are appropriate and affect the appropriate people, we need to understand who those people actually are in the first place.

The second aspect of the proposed addition to the study, which is the impacts of the blockades on the Canadian economy and Canadian workers, is for us to understand the tolerance of the measures that the government has put into place. We're going to study the impact as per this motion as currently worded and we're going to be thinking about whether these are appropriate measures.

We should absolutely understand exactly what the economic impact of these blockades has been, not just in Ottawa, not just at the Ambassador Bridge, but on families and with workers, to understand that if this was to happen again in the future, or if this was to be a regular tactic—and it's not like we haven't seen tactics similar to this before—whether or not the measures that are proposed in the Emergencies Act are an appropriate use or if we should be looking at other methods.

I think both aspects of this are important. First, the financing of the illegal blockades, where that financing is coming from, what it's being used for, how it's been tracked by the various agencies like FINTRAC and the like is very pertinent to this study.

Second, there are the impacts of the blockades on Canadians and Canadian workers. We have heard about individuals who have been laid off, and plants and factories that haven't been able to continue. Understanding that, I think, will provide a lot of context to this particular study.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

I've got, from the floor, MP Baker, MP Dzerowicz and MP Blaikie.

MP Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I agree with a lot of what Mr. Beech has said. Maybe I could just briefly say that in the motion that Mr. McLean proposed there was a desire to study the powers given to financial institutions to share personal information and other aspects. I think if we want to study that and what Mr. Beech is proposing in terms of understanding the financing of the blockades, it's important that they go hand in hand, to understand whether certain powers or certain disclosures are reasonable around finances. It's important to understand how the blockades are financed. That's why I think that part of what he's proposing is helpful to the study.

In terms of the impact of the blockades on the Canadian economy and Canadian workers, again, if you're going to evaluate a measure taken by government to solve a problem then it's important to fully capture the impact [Inaudible—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Baker, you will have the floor but I do need to suspend. This is coming from powers upon high.

I understand, clerk and interpreters, we need to suspend for 30 minutes to air the booths for our protocol measures at this time.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I call the meeting back to order.

We're going to start with MP Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I had finished what I wanted to say, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay. MP Dzerowicz was next. Is she still in the room? No.

I am going to go to MP Beech.

[Terry Beech, Liberal, Burnaby North—Seymour, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of my colleagues. We were able to have some discussions during the break.

I am going to withdraw my amendment, and seek unanimous consent to amend the motion as follows. I would add a new bullet under “a) The study examine”, which would read, “i. The financing of the protest and the blockades;”

I would further amend the motion under part c) that refers to the invitation of witnesses, and change the part where it refers to the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance alone for two hours. We would delete the word “alone”, and add the Department of Finance to the list of departments that are on the next bullet point.

With those amendments, we would pass the motion in its entirety on division.

I will speak to that amendment now, Mr. Chair, since I have the floor.

Obviously, we still need to have a subcommittee meeting. We have some programmatic stuff that we need to get to. I'll take members on their word that we're going to figure out a way to deal with Bill C-8, including some commitments that were made under the scheduling of the minister.

I believe, having talked to everyone, that this is agreeable, and that this will get us out of here tonight with a path forward to examine this very important subject.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Beech.

MP Chatel, please go ahead.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

I have a small change to the first sentence, after the comma. It's mostly cosmetic.

It would be “any related measures taken regarding the blockages”.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Could I have Mrs. Chatel repeat it, because I'm not following where the comma is. At the end, is it “taken regarding the 2022 freedom convoy”? What words do you want to add?

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

It's referring to the blockages, and it's following the previous amendment. It's cosmetic. Do you want me to—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

We've agreed on the wording so far, Mrs. Chatel. They are friendly amendments. If it's okay, we can leave them as Mr. Beech read them, and that would be good enough.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'll confirm the friendly amendment as well in part b), which was “Tuesday, February 22”. This is when the hearings begin and no later.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion?

Seeing none, I think someone asked for unanimous consent to pass it on division, is that correct?

(Motion as amended agreed to on division [See Minutes of Proceedings])

I do see everybody coming together.

Terrific.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, may I thank all colleagues here? I think we're going to do something really important and good for Canadians here. It's much appreciated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Members, while I still have you here on Bill C-8 and the PBC, I know that the clerk and analysts are seized with the calendar and are trying to get this done. We're partway there, but if you will allow me, I can work together with the clerk and the analysts to propose some of the dates, etc., so that we could get C-8 and the PBC done. We would send those out to you, if that would be okay.

Thank you very much.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

We did talk about a subcommittee here. I suggest we have that subcommittee because we have so many studies on the horizon and time is always limited. I understand there's no availability tomorrow, but if the clerks can start corralling the witnesses for Tuesday, perhaps we could have the subcommittee meeting on Monday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Mr. Clerk, perhaps you could see if we have availability.

On that subcommittee, maybe we could still get some of that work done. As I've said, I've had discussions with the clerk and the analysts. I could distribute that to members and see if some of those dates and times work, just before our subcommittee.

I see everybody's heads shaking in the right direction.

Do we move to adjourn?