Finance Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2022

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We are moving now to the Bloc and MP Ste-Marie for six minutes, please.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Madam Minister. It's a pleasure to see you at the Standing Committee on Finance.

As you said, all colleagues here support Bill C‑30. We think it's a good, targeted measure. The fact that the Standing Committee on Finance will likely spend only one sitting on it shows that. My hat is off to you. This was part of our pre-budget request, so I'm very happy to see that this has been put together.

At the Bloc Québécois, we also agree on the principles of Bill C‑31, except for a few reservations. I have a few questions for you on this subject. Frankly, I think it has been poorly drafted. When I read it, I wonder if Quebec exists.

I'll start with the part about rental assistance.

I am sincerely concerned that the people of Quebec are not getting their due under this program. The assistance is a supplement, as you said, to the Canada Housing Benefit, but no one in Quebec is receiving that benefit. We have had our own program since 1997, under the right to opt out with compensation. Our program is more generous, but the eligibility criteria are completely different.

How are you going to match the reality and the Quebec program with the program put in place by Bill C‑31? There's not a word in this one about any possible tie‑in.

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question and for your support of Bill C‑30. It's good to come up with ideas and issues that we all agree on and be able to move them forward quickly.

I'm going to talk about housing and the specific situation in Quebec, but, first, it's important for me to start by acknowledging that today is provincial election day in Quebec. Congratulations. Our government and the Department of Finance have been working closely with the Government of Quebec, and we will continue to do so, regardless of the election results. It is not my place to predict the outcome, especially not on this election day, but I can stress that we will always show goodwill in working with the Province of Quebec.

If we talk about child care and children, for example, an issue that is particularly important to me, we have found a solution that is good both for Quebec and for all of Canada. I agree with you that we need to pay particular attention to housing, for example. It will be a pleasure for me to work with you and in close collaboration with the new Quebec government on this issue.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you for your reply.

This afternoon, I would have liked to have received a guarantee and to hear you say that you and your government are committed to amending Bill C‑31. We in the opposition do not have the power to propose amendments in committee that result in spending. The federal spending power is a privilege reserved for the Crown, and therefore for the government party. I would therefore like a guarantee that Quebec will not be forgotten with respect to the rental assistance provided for in Bill C-31.

The same is true for the dental care measures in Bill C‑31. These are for children 11 and under, whereas in Quebec our program is for children 9 and under. Collectively, we already pay for insurance. Here, the terms of application differ: sometimes the cheque will be sent to the families, sometimes it will not. However, in all cases where the cheque is sent, the need will already have been covered for children aged 9 and under. Again, there was no tie-in in Bill C‑31. So, as with rental assistance, I would like a guarantee that the government or the Liberal Party will be able to introduce an amendment to Bill C‑31 to tie the programs together. We welcome the principle, but it must correspond to Quebec's reality.

Can you make that commitment to the Standing Committee on Finance this afternoon?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question.

It's a bit tricky to discuss the work done with the Province of Quebec even as the election is going on and people are at the polls. What I can guarantee is that we will show goodwill in working with the Quebec government.

On the two issues you highlighted, dental care and housing, I think we all agree on our target. We understand that Quebeckers, like all Canadians, have problems arising from a lack of affordability, which obviously includes the affordability of rent. When it comes to dental care, it's the same thing.

I can guarantee that we will show goodwill and work closely with the Quebec government after the election results are released.

We will also talk with you. Indeed, your advice will be very helpful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Madam Minister and Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Now we will move to the NDP and welcome MP Julian to our committee.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and congratulations to you on assuming your position.

Thank you, Minister Freeland, for being back before the finance committee.

Jagmeet Singh raised the issue of the GST rebate months ago as Canadians struggled. We saw more and more Canadians struggling to put food on the table and to keep a roof over their heads as costs increased.

My question is twofold. First off, why did it take so long for the government to follow Jagmeet Singh's lead and put the proposal in place? Second, and perhaps more importantly, what do the finance committee and the House have to do now to ensure the timelines are kept so that people will actually see this benefit at a time when they really need to have the additional money in their homes?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Julian, and thank you for your energetic support of this measure. I really am glad that we all agree that it's the right thing to do.

I think the fact that this committee is meeting now to discuss it now is important. Given that we all support this measure, I would hope that we are able to move it quickly through the House, get it to the Senate and move quickly there.

In order to actually get—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Minister—

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Sorry—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

—just more specific dates, okay?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Yes. In order to get the payments out to Canadians, we need to move really fast.

Well, let me put it this way: The faster we move at committee, in the House of Commons and in the Senate, the more quickly the CRA can get the payments to Canadians. We're a rule-of-law country. The CRA can't act until we have passed the legislation.

I would like to get these payments to Canadians as quickly as possible, and now that all of us agree that it's the right thing to do, I think there are no good excuses for procedural delays.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay. I think we agree that things need to happen quickly. I was hoping to have a date for when you would expect the payments to be made, but I'll move on to a couple of other questions around eligibility.

First, will Canadians be able to qualify for this benefit if they file their taxes after the eligibility period?

The second issue, which of course came up with CERB and the CRB, was the issue of the money being counted as income in calculations for benefits in the following year. Can you assure us that the money Canadians receive through this rebate won't impact their income calculations for other benefit programs in the next fiscal year?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

The counting of this benefit and the eligibility will be the same as for the GST rebates, which people are currently getting.

One of the reasons that this is a good mechanism.... From my perspective—and I hope you'll agree—there are two reasons this is a good mechanism for getting support to vulnerable Canadians. One, is that we already have the GST tax credit in place. It's a program that works and a program that has been designed already to target the most vulnerable Canadians, so we're using a system already created. The second thing is that we already have a pipe going to people, so we don't have to create a new pipe and create a new system, as we did, for example, with the CERB.

Both of those things should provide a lot of comfort to Canadians and help us to act quickly, which I think is what we all want to do.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You're saying it won't hurt income calculations for benefit programs, and I'm comforted by that.

I'm going to go on to the next issue, which is, of course, that at the same time as Canadians have been struggling to put food on the table and make ends meet, we've certainly seen record profits in some industry sectors. Canadians see that contradiction, and they're concerned about it.

We—Jagmeet Singh and the NDP—have been been saying it's important to eliminate the GST on home heating and medication costs for people in need. Are you prepared to do that, to put in place that additional support for Canadians at this critical time?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

We are always looking at all measures and are always open to new ideas. I will say, though, Mr. Julian—it's hard for me, because I want to call you “Peter” and I want to call Julie “Julie”—with all due respect, that we're always looking at additional measures. It's a volatile and evolving environment.

I do take fiscal responsibility very seriously and I look carefully at that side of the ledger as well. With any new measure we contemplate, we always have to think about our fiscal position.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Okay.

We have seen some record profits by some of the large grocery chains. There are concerns about profiteering taking place, what many are referring to as “greedflation”. Why hasn't the government taken action on that so that we're all in this together?

[Chrystia Freeland, Liberal, University—Rosedale, ON]

Our government absolutely does believe that we need to all be in it together and that everyone needs to pay their fair share. That's why our luxury tax came into effect on September 1. It is a new measure for Canada. I think it is a measure that makes clear our government's commitment to fairness, and I think Canadians appreciate that and support it.

As you also know, we are putting in place a COVID recovery dividend of 15%, which is significant, and a permanent tax of 1.5% on banks and insurers, so we are acting.

I will also say that I think all new taxes have to be looked at very carefully. We have to be sure that they are fair and that they're not going to put any kind of burden on economic growth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, MP Julian.

Members, we are moving into our second round. I think we have just enough time to get through a full second round if we keep things very tight.

We have the Conservatives up first. MP Lantsman, welcome to our committee.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

MP Lantsman, you have five minutes.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, for coming. I will keep my questions short.

We're the only country in the G7 that has raised fuel taxes since this period of record inflation, and I want to know if you're aware of that and if you still think that the plan to triple the carbon tax is a fair one for Canadians.