Fisheries Committee on April 23rd, 2012

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Are there smelt in Lake Huron?

[John Van Rooyen]

There were. We don't see many now.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

That's interesting.

[John Van Rooyen]

There are some indications. The commercial fishermen I talk to say they're out deep. We used to see them on the shorelines this time of year, and they were great eating, but we haven't seen them.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

The smelt could be a replacement forage fish for the alewife, right? That's not happening?

[John Van Rooyen]

It's part of the way salmon feed. Salmon are daytime feeders and they like to feed in the “up” direction. Smelt tend to go to the bottom in the daylight hours.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

In terms of the Asian carp, given they seem to be a fish that feeds at the low trophic levels, do we know if any of those carp species consume zebra mussels at all?

[John Van Rooyen]

I haven't heard of them consuming zebra mussels.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Do you have any thoughts on this, Dr. Quinney?

[Dr. Terry Quinney]

I don't know the answer to your question, Mr. Sopuck, but I can tell you this: there's nothing good about Asian carp in the wild in North America. Without exaggerating, hopefully it's become apparent that in the 50 years it has taken to successfully manage sea lamprey by Canadians and Americans, it's cost the taxpayers of both our countries $1.25 billion or more over a 50-year period, and we're still at it. We have to still be at it in order to get some benefits. My gosh, just think of what the potential next invader at the scale of a sea lamprey might cost us all.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

In terms of actual on-the-ground programming to effectively control an invasive species that's already invaded a given habitat, have there been many success stories, or any success stories, you can point to whereby an invasive species has actually been either eliminated or reduced to such a level that it's not a threat any more?

[Dr. Terry Quinney]

Unfortunately, the closest example I can give you is sea lamprey control: that with constant management and vigilance it can be successfully managed, but not eliminated.

So you're quite right; that's the lesson, lesson number one: can we prevent these harmful species from entering our ecosystems in the first place? That's the most effective course of action, to prevent wherever possible.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

To follow up on that, do you think that if the level of effort remains the same in terms of preventing the Asian carp from entering the Great Lakes, if that continues or increases, we'll be successful in keeping the Asian carp out? Or, and I hate to say this, is it ultimately inevitable that they'll get in?

[Dr. Terry Quinney]

No, it's not ultimately inevitable.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Good.

[Dr. Terry Quinney]

Even if, in the most unfortunate circumstance, Asian carp do move into, for example, Lake Michigan at first, we have to ask ourselves which one is potentially next and even more expensive from a societal point of view.

Again, on the topic of prevention of Asian carp, we'd invite you, as your study progresses, to invite representatives of the Great Lakes cities initiative, the Great Lakes commission, who, to their credit, invested several million dollars in a very good engineering study that has clearly shown the feasibility of physical separation of those two basins.

Is it expensive? Yes. But they've shown that it can be accomplished, and accomplished in a way that would not only prevent aquatic invasive species but would provide benefits to other segments of the economy, not only benefits to recreational fishing and commercial fishing but benefits to how goods are transported through that Chicago shipping canal system—and flood water control, for that matter.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I think my time is up.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Gravelle.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Farrant, in your presentation you said that you're the largest non-profit conservation-based organization in Ontario, and one of the largest in Canada. Can you tell me where you get your funding from?

[Greg Farrant]

Certainly. Our funding for the most part comes from our membership.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Do you get any money from any level of government, provincial or federal?

[Greg Farrant]

As I indicated earlier, we get approximately $300,000 per year from the Province of Ontario, which we match. That comes from the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources. We get small funding envelopes from both the Department of the Environment and DFO. The Environment Canada money in the last calendar year was somewhere in the neighbourhood of $50,000 plus a bit, and the same for DFO.

Other than that, all of the money that's spent by our organization on conservation projects is generated through membership dollars.

[Dr. Terry Quinney]

Sir, if I may, you've heard in this presentation how highly we value partnerships. We receive no government money for our operating budgets, but we will partner with anyone who is interested in improving the health of fish and wildlife, and conservation in this country.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Okay, fine.

I'm not sure who said it, Mr. Quinney or Mr. Farrant, but one of you said that emptying bait buckets into a lake introduces foreign species.

[Greg Farrant]

Yes.