Evidence of meeting #73 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
I'm out? Then I can't ask my U.S. relations in the Yukon question. I'll have to skip it.
Noon
Conservative
Noon
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Thank you.
I'll start with just a quick observation.
I was very surprised at the short shrift you paid to the recreational fishery in your presentation. At a previous meeting, one of the DFO officials pointed out that the recreational fishery in Canada is worth $8 billion a year versus $2 billion for the commercial fishery.
I think that reflects the culture of DFO, and I would suggest it's time that what DFO does reflects the reality on the ground.
I was interested in the comment about commercial fishing, that the difficulty is transportation to markets. Having worked in the eastern Arctic myself, I can certainly agree with that. But again, from a recreational fishery standpoint, the money and the markets come to the fish as opposed to the fish going to the markets.
I will be working hard over the next little while to ensure that the department begins to emphasize recreational fishing to a much, much greater extent.
To your point about the Yukon in terms of participation in the recreational fishery, that's an important part of the culture and life of Yukon. Again, as I said, to barely mention it in your presentation—I find it quite disconcerting.
I would like to focus on Arctic char in particular. Having done a bit of work up there on char, I can certainly agree with you in terms of the importance of the fish to the local communities and the culture and so on.
What is the state of the Arctic char stocks? Obviously it varies all over the map, but are any stocks really in trouble? How quickly will they come back if managed well? Or are most of the stocks in reasonably good shape?
12:05 p.m.
Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I guess I'll start with that one. I'd say that for the most part, the stocks are in pretty good shape. We have some areas where you run up against the traditional harvest and recreational fisheries. We have some fisheries where we have concerns, and we've had catch and release. As a result of the catch and release program, the same fish is being caught multiple times. Obviously that doesn't help the fish. When we see those kinds of things, we'll take appropriate measures to put a complete ban on the recreational fisheries to ensure that we bring it back.
Just going back to your point about giving short shrift to the recreational fisheries, I apologize for that. It was not overlooking it. It was, to an extent, to try to cover a lot of information. I can assure you that we are working very diligently with our colleagues, particularly in the Northwest Territories, who have approached us over the last several months related to how we can deal with their fisheries regulations and the work they want to do to ensure the recreational fisheries and the regulations around those that allow them to enhance and exploit that to a much bigger potential than we are currently. So there are discussions. I've had several meetings with them, and we are working with them to bring forward regulatory changes, which will allow them to market that from not only the fisheries perspective but the tourism potential of it, which is huge, as you've said.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Yes, of course. I don't want to belabour the point, but again, the great fishing lodges on the Great Bear and Great Slave lakes, those are legendary. Again, we need a higher emphasis on recreating that.
On your comment on releasing fish, unless you have hooking mortalities in studies, you don't really know what the mortality rate is. Catch and release is a good thing, and in terms of stock sustainability, the management of the recreational fishing resource is probably the most sustainable of all.
Just switching gears to marine mammal stocks, what shape are marine mammal stocks in? Specifically, I'm looking at the ringed seal, the narwhal, and the beluga.
12:05 p.m.
Director General, Ecosystems and Oceans Science Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll take a crack at that. It's hard to generalize, for the most part. Maybe the easiest one to answer is the bowhead, because it's such a broadly distributed animal. These are very large whales, and they range over a very large part of the Arctic. Generally, that stock now is considered to be in fairly good shape. Our recent estimates were considerably better overall than what had previously been thought. It's probably a combination of change in the stock and change in our ability to pull together a good picture over a wide area. Nevertheless, it's reasonably good news, and it's conservatively harvested, so I think that's fairly good.
With regard to narwhal, it's a species where there is some concern, but we've done a lot of work within the department and with our co-management partners over the last couple of years to put together a more robust management program and a science program to support it. The driving factor here is CITES, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species. This species is listed on appendix 2, which means that we need to be able to look at the harvest and certify in a sense that they are sustainable before products could be exported. It doesn't affect domestic use, but foreign export. As David mentioned earlier, there is an export market for narwhal tusks. We've been doing a lot of work with our co-management partners in the Arctic to get those fisheries into shape and be able to show that they are being sustainably harvested at current levels.
Beluga really varies. There are a number of stocks of beluga, and they vary from being not in bad shape to being in quite bad shape, depending on where you are. All of these are being monitored. There are different management plans, as David explained earlier, in those different areas with the appropriate level of control.
Ringed seal is a bit of a challenge. It's endemic everywhere. We don't, quite frankly, have a good monitoring program for ringed seal. We don't have the sense that there's a big issue with ringed seal, but we would be hard pressed, to be honest, to bring forward a good quantitative analysis on that right now.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
It's a great discussion. I'm delighted to hear the committee is reviewing this. I'm only added in today, replacing one of my colleagues, but it's near and dear to my heart. At one point in time I was the ADM for natural resources for the Yukon, and I had the privilege of representing the Yukon on the Arctic environmental protection strategy.
Regrettably, in the late 1990s, the then Liberal government disbanded the Arctic environmental protection strategy, which was a very important forum for scientists of all jurisdictions across the Arctic to talk about these kinds of issues. Is there any kind of mechanism like that now in the federal government, where the first nations governments and the territorial governments and the federal government, and potentially international players, are coming together?
12:10 p.m.
Director General, Ecosystems and Oceans Science Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can provide a partial answer to that. We talked a few minutes ago about the Arctic Council. I'll talk internationally first, and then I'll talk domestically in a minute.
There are some structures that are actually quite effective at bringing not only government representatives but non-governmental organizations and interest groups into discussion about science issues generally across the Arctic and international arena. So that's one area where there is....
I'm not familiar personally with the program you made reference to.
12:10 p.m.
Director General, Ecosystems and Oceans Science Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Domestically, there is probably not a single structure of the type to which you allude. Again, I'm not familiar with how that previous one worked.
Through the co-management agreement structure that we were discussing earlier, there are some good, strong science tables there that bring together folk who work for those organizations and represent those nations with a range of federal government scientists.
If I could elaborate a little bit on the comments that David made earlier, about how it works on the management side, I can say there is a very strong sense of collaboration, and a need for collaboration, on the science side within the co-management structures we have. We're always trying to stay in touch with what our clients' issues and needs are, and I would say that's true across the country. The land claims that often are the reason why we have these structures really bring that to a new level when we're talking about a lot of Arctic issues. We talk regularly to them about what it is they would like to do, what we plan to do, and how to do it. Often they are financially partnered with us. I would say that is one of the more important venues we have in which to interact.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
It sounds to me like there isn't an overall forum.
On the recreational fishery and the legendary fish camps, I happened to work at one of those in 1969. In one of the many American-owned fish camps, where a lot of American fishers flew in and out at that time, there were a lot of bays that were already fished out. My question to you is, now that we have first nations final agreements.... When I worked in Yukon, there was always a negotiation if you were going to be renting rafts, doing trips, fish camps, and so forth. There had to be arrangements so that the first nations groups or the Inuit or the Innu or Inuvialuit could participate.
Could you tell me the status of the freshwater fishery in the north, across the northern territories and the Arctic? Is it still mainly American ownership, or do we have a lot of Canadian ownership? Do we have first nations, Innu, and Inuvialuit ownership?
12:15 p.m.
Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I think probably the best thing for me to declare at this point is that although I'm the central and arctic region RDG, I only cover the northern slope of the Yukon. I don't cover the mainland part of it. My colleague from the Pacific region looks after it.
I can tell you there is, as I said in my remarks, a very healthy outfitter and charter industry focused on the freshwater stocks.
12:15 p.m.
Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't know the economic—
12:15 p.m.
NDP
12:15 p.m.
Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We could research that, no problem.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
And how many might be first nation or Inuit or Inuvialuit co-owners or total owners.
12:15 p.m.
Acting Regional Director General, Central and Arctic Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
One question I have is about the long-range transport of contaminants. That was a big issue when I worked in Yukon. I know it's a big issue for the traditional harvest of the species. Are you working with other agencies or entities, looking at the potential impact of long-range transported contaminants on the marine fishery and marine wildlife?
12:15 p.m.
Director General, Ecosystems and Oceans Science Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Probably the program that would provide the most perspective on that would be the northern contaminants program, and that's not run centrally out of our department.
The division of responsibilities with regard to contaminants, understanding processes that would bring contaminants from another area and a mechanism by which they might get into an ecosystem—it wouldn't be us. It would more likely be Environment Canada or AANDC.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Right, but I'm interested. Most of the discussion has been about a potential commercial fishery, and of course the level of contamination is going to have a major impact on the saleability. I'm just wondering if there's any kind of interaction between your department and the contaminates group about whether that's potentially a growing issue. Is it stabilized?
12:15 p.m.
Director General, Ecosystems and Oceans Science Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm not aware actually of what the trend would be in that. If we're thinking about human use of those fisheries products and the level of contaminants and what issues there would be there, it would be the responsibility of Health Canada and CFIA to run those programs.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, gentlemen, for being with us again today.
Before I ask my first question, I would like some clarification. When I turn to slide 3...do you refer to western Arctic as everything west of the Nunavut settlement area?
