Evidence of meeting #102 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philippe Méla  Legislative Clerk
Nicholas Winfield  Director General, Ecosystems Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Mark Waddell  Director General, Fisheries and Licence Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Gorazd Ruseski  Senior Director, Aboriginal Program, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Adam Burns  Director General, Fisheries Resource Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

10:25 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Chair, of course, had Mr. Donnelly's amendment NDP-26 been shorter, I might have lost a chance to try to get at this one again.

The idea here is to ensure that as we're looking at the regulation-making powers of the minister, we see that the minister may indeed pass regulations, make regulations, conservation measures, emergency measures of all kinds, prohibit fishing of one or more species, prohibit the type of certain fishing gear, and so on.

My amendment provides an opportunity for a government of a province or a governing indigenous body to request of the minister that such regulations to prohibit fishing of one or more species, populations, assemblies, or stocks of fish might be taken, and the minister must respond to such a request from a provincial government or indigenous governing body within 90 days, and with reasons.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernadette Jordan

CPC-20 also is deleted.

(Clause 32 agreed to on division)

(Clauses 33 to 39 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 40)

We have LIB-10. If LIB-10 is adopted, LIB-11 cannot be moved as there is a line conflict.

Mr. Rogers.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL

Madam Chair, we're suggesting the removal of paragraph (e). Other than that, we move the amendment as presented. This is in keeping with amendments that we put forward for Bill C-69.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernadette Jordan

We're on NDP-27. If it is adopted...well, LIB-11 cannot be moved now anyway.

10:25 a.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Madam Chair, this just protects traditional knowledge.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernadette Jordan

My apologies, I made a mistake earlier. Because (e) was removed, LIB-11 can be moved at this time. I apologize for that.

The vote on LIB-11 applies to LIB-13. They are consequential.

Mr. Hardie.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

This basically introduces the requirement for the minister to consult before releasing information provided by indigenous communities, particularly disclosing certain information that may be sensitive in that community.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernadette Jordan

Is there any discussion on LIB-11?

Mr. Arnold.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Madam Chair, I'm wondering how this is going to affect project proponents who may have their project denied without finding out why. They could end up doing, I guess, a big Ping-Pong battle back and forth, reapplying without knowing why they were denied the first time.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernadette Jordan

Are you asking the officials?

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

I guess the officials would be the first people to ask.

10:30 a.m.

Director General, Ecosystems Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Nicholas Winfield

The minister must provide the reasons for his decision in terms of issuing or not issuing an authorization.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

But he's not allowed to disclose the indigenous knowledge.

10:30 a.m.

Director General, Ecosystems Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Nicholas Winfield

If that indigenous knowledge has been protected, then that knowledge cannot be shared.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

As I say, proponents may never know why their project was denied.

Is that correct?

10:30 a.m.

Director General, Ecosystems Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Nicholas Winfield

I can't answer that, because it depends what information has been shared with the proponent. The minister must protect the information provided by indigenous people. The minister may have other reasons for rejecting a project, and he would give his reasons.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernadette Jordan

Mr. Hardie.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC

Madam Chair, perhaps the staff could give us a practical example of why the minister would choose to protect information provided by the indigenous community.

10:30 a.m.

Director General, Ecosystems Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Nicholas Winfield

A key example would be where there are traditional uses of lands and resources by indigenous people. It could be a sacred site. It could be an area used for traditional purposes for fishing, the location of which indigenous people do not wish to disclose.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernadette Jordan

Mr. Arnold.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

To the officials, would a proponent be provided with any indication as to why a proposed project was disallowed if the indigenous knowledge was deemed not available for disclosure?

10:30 a.m.

Director General, Ecosystems Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans

Nicholas Winfield

I'm struggling to give any more information than I have already.

The minister must provide the reasons for his decision. If there are issues related to traditional knowledge that relate back to the fishery, the minister cannot disclose the specifics of that information, but he could provide a general response as to why he made a decision to oppose a project.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bernadette Jordan

Mr. Miller, go ahead.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

I'm not sure if Mr. Arnold is done.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Not quite, I'm sorry.

Would the information provided by the minister to the proponent be anything more than the decision was based on undisclosable indigenous knowledge?