Evidence of meeting #121 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dredging.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Have I time for another question?
I have one minute. Okay.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
I'll get started, and maybe if there's another final round, you can finish.
Along the same line, how can the federal government best assist those communities that wish to accept the harbour and those assets? In other words, once divestiture has happened, what's the best role that the government could play in making sure they succeed?
4:45 p.m.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Right now we don't have a role after the divestiture, but one thing I can say to the committee is we do transfer the asset in a state of good repair. When they get the asset, it is in good condition and the upkeep should be relatively easy for a number of years.
4:45 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
You also have a lot of knowledge from harbour authorities that could be transferred to these folks, who may not have that knowledge. That may be something to think about going forward.
4:45 p.m.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.
Back to the government side, we go to Mr. Fraser, for four minutes or less, please.
4:45 p.m.
West Nova, Lib.
Thanks, and I'll share my time with Mr. Morrissey.
I just want to pick up on a point that was raised earlier by Mr. Calkins regarding the capacity issue at our small craft harbours.
I know it depends on what fishery we're talking about as far as what's going on with the consolidation of fleets, or whatever is concerned. There are a number of lobster fishermen in southwestern Nova Scotia, obviously, who want larger boats because they want live wells on their boats in order to have a better quality product when they sell their lobsters. They want to have a safer boat. They want to be able to have a more efficient boat, to be able to put all their lobster traps on in one run, or do a double run in a day.
All of this comes back, though, I think, to the point of the A-base funding, in order to plan long term to deal with some of these capacity issues. I'm glad you raised the issues today with regard to long-term, stable funding in A-base, and the fact that there hasn't been an increase in nine years. I think that's important.
One thing that was raised earlier was with regard to working with the local harbour authority and some of the knowledge on the ground at these wharves in order to make sure that we're not missing an opportunity to have future room for capacity. The issue at the Wedgeport harbour was raised, and the fact that they put a breakwater in a place that didn't allow for floating docks to be put in and have added capacity maybe in the future.
When the final engineering plan is done for work at a small craft harbour, is the harbour authority in on that final engineering plan? Do you think there would be any opportunity to have them actually have a look at it before final approval is given or is that consultation done earlier on, and they don't actually know what's going to happen in the final result?
4:45 p.m.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
My understanding on how it works is that when the final design is done, it would be shared and discussed with the harbour authority. I can't say with certainty that this is done 100% of the time, but it would be my expectation that this is what's happening.
4:45 p.m.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
November 22nd, 2018 / 4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you.
Following up on that, one of the frustrations we heard, especially in Nova Scotia, was when the port authorities said too much of the funds that were dedicated to a project in their area go to design and engineering fees within Public Works. If you go with infrastructure funding to do upgrades in the municipality, they will go out to the private sector to get designs. I want you to comment on that. Is there a more efficient way of allowing the harbour authorities to have more control over those design issues? This speaks to my colleague's point, giving them more responsibility for proper design.
We'll just use any number. On a $3-million project, $2.9 million or $2.7 million of it is actually spent on the project. A lot of times we see these big numbers, but when you look at what's left to go into the project.... That's why we've seen so many projects where there was approval to do this much, but once all the design and overhead costs from government were added in, you ended up with a small project that, really, at the end of it, made no sense in being there.
4:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'll just say—Denise can correct me if I'm wrong—that at least we've tried.
A lot of the work we do is in house, so we don't always use PSPC. That has certainly helped us a lot in terms of efficiency, and getting things done much quicker and at a lower cost.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
With most of the ones I see in my riding, it's still Public Works. You talk to small craft harbour managers.... I want to make it clear that your people in my region are very good. I've developed a good relationship with them. They're very helpful, and they try to work it out. However, there's still a significant amount of the cost that's attached to the project once it's approved that never gets into the physical structure. That's the frustration you get from harbour authorities and fishers.
4:50 p.m.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.
Now we go to the Conservative side, with Mr. Arnold, for four minutes or less.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I will probably carry on with Mr. Morrissey's question, because I don't think we received enough of an answer to it.
We certainly heard on our travels on the east coast that having to go through the public procurement process, in the estimation of some of the harbour authorities, drove the price up by sometimes what they estimated to be three times over what it should have been. For the dollars that were spent, they got a third of the work that they could have, and that type of thing.
In the change we were talking about, the 2013 evaluation and looking at more affordability or how things things could be done better, has that been looked at?
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
One thing I can tell you, to build on what Sylvie has said, is that we do have some in-house capacity that we use. Sometimes we use PSPC. It's a bit of a balance in terms of optimizing the capacity that we have to deliver on a project. Sometimes we have the capacity to do things in-house and it reduces the cost, and sometimes we have to go through PSPC.
Could there be improvement on that model? Maybe so, and I think that's something we can continue to look at.
Again, I will go back to the notion of A-base funding versus B-base funding. With B-base funding, it's a large injection of money. We don't necessarily always have the staff, so we work collaboratively with PSPC to deliver on our projects. In a scenario where we would have more A-base, maybe we would be in a position to strengthen our own internal capacity and hence reduce the reliance on PSPC.
Over the years, there has been that shift of building internal capacity, but we're not at the level where we can say we can do it all internally.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Okay.
In looking at that 2013 report, we didn't hear about much that had been initiated. There were a few things that were looked at, but no real action was taken.
I guess the big question for us in trying to put together a report is, should we just expect more of the status quo, or can we be given an estimate of how much it's going to take to make a difference?
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I will add on to—
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
You said that no work has been done since 2013.
In 2016, we hired a consultant to do a study and to make recommendations on a long-term strategy, so there was a report issued in 2016—
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
With no disrespect to you, this is a recurring theme that we see within the overall department: the failure to complete a plan. We continuously hear about plans that were supposed to be developed, and when it's pointed out that those plans aren't there, the department says, “Well, we'll definitely develop a plan to develop the plans.”
I'll end there.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
—really quickly that in 2013, the report identified that the “main performance information management tool” called “the Small Craft Harbours Management Information Retriever (SCHMIR), is not yet being fully used by all regions.”
Is it now being used by all regions?