Evidence of meeting #121 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was dredging.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's not that specific, no.
One of the things we're undertaking this year, and we've just set up a national committee, is a lease review. We will be looking into the lease, and we will be engaging with harbour authorities in this exercise.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
There was some concern that the $250 million of new money brought in by our government may not all be spent because of the ability to gear up tenders and awards and get contractors. Can you comment on that?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We have received the authority to spend less in 2018-19 and more in 2019-20, so we have that ability to ramp up and meet the expectations.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You're confident that in roughly the two years $250 million will get out—
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, we just tend to break it down.
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You referenced the issue of dredging and the environment. One of the parts I find frustrating in my province is that the provincial government will not allow sand to be moved onto the beach next to a harbour. It could be moved at no cost, but it's okay if it moves 100 feet into the channel at the harbour and then the Government of Canada spends $300,000 to move it.
Could we do a better job of coordinating with provincial governments on a more preventive approach to this? It happens a lot. There's no cost incurred in some of these areas. We have to be protective of the environment but, close to the harbour, a contractor would come in and gladly remove it if they could get environmental approval, but when it moves literally 100 feet into the channel of the harbour, it becomes an issue of several hundred thousand dollars.
4:15 p.m.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
We'll have to try to get the answer.
That was a long seven seconds, Mr. Morrissey.
4:15 p.m.
Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)
That didn't help, apparently.
We go back to the Conservative side.
Mr. Doherty, you have five minutes or less, please.
November 22nd, 2018 / 4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to offer our guests this comment. Where my frustration comes from is that, time and again, we have the department that comes before us and promises to do better. All the time. DFO's 2013 evaluation report on the small craft harbour program mentioned that the department had “recently launched a process to develop a Long-Term Strategy that will propose options for sustainability of the Small Craft Harbours program in the long term....” That's from the 2013 report.
The 2013 evaluation report on the small craft harbours program also said that the data on harbour performance and harbour facility conditions was not entirely up to date. It's been five years. That is a very long study, and it comes down to how much money you have. I have to question the management of it.
I'd like to know when this long-term study is going to be done and how much more money you're going to need to get it done. It's been five years since the 2013 evaluation report came forward. At one point, the buck has to stop.
You're in charge of this department. What do you have to say to that?
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are a lot of things that we've not been able to address in terms of longer-term planning, because we've received these injections of short-term funding with deliverables in extremely tight timelines, capital projects, and bringing the small craft harbours up to a state where they're safe.
That has taken, honestly, a lot of our time. Every time the funding ends, we start from scratch all over again and have to deliver, within a very short period of time, significant projects and deliverables across the country.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
I don't accept that as an answer.
I would offer this. Ultimately, as managers of a department, decisions have to be made. You have to manage your department and the assets accordingly. Lives matter about it. Safely and securely, you have to run those small craft harbours.
I'm going to pass the remainder of my time to my honourable colleague.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Doherty.
Along that same line, on that 2013 evaluation report and the statement that there would be a long-term strategy completed, can you tell us if anything has been initiated?
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
One of the things we looked at in the past is alternative delivery of the program. To date, we've been unable to find another delivery mechanism, other than the one that we have, that would be as effective or that would reduce the costs to the federal government. That is ongoing work that we continue to look—
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
We do five-year planning, which is what we're able to do right now.
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's a longer term than one year.
As I say, we're extremely challenged with these sudden injections of significant funds and expectations that we will deliver projects in very short periods of time.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
The same report also said, “Identify and test alternatives that will improve the program’s affordability and long-term sustainability.”
Could you please provide us with details on alternatives identified that might improve the delivery of the small craft harbours program? That was five years ago. There should have been something developed.
4:20 p.m.
Director General, Small Craft Harbours, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
In terms of the service delivery models that were explored, they looked at the operations of all harbours using public and private partnerships. That was one option that was looked at. There was divestiture of all harbours and delivery of a new contribution program during the transition. Conversion to a special operating agency could have been an option, or the transfer of non-core harbours to Public Services and Procurement Canada or to Canada Lands.