Evidence of meeting #142 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was climate.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Richard Wahle  Research Professor, School of Marine Sciences, University of Maine, As an Individual
Paul Lansbergen  President, Fisheries Council of Canada

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Now we'll go to the NDP.

Mr. Donnelly, welcome back again. It's good to see you. You have seven minutes or less, sir.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both our witnesses for being here and providing your testimony.

Dr. Wahle, I will start with you on a few questions. Could you summarize for the committee the eastern U.S. lobster/crab fishery and how that fishery has been impacted over the past five to 10 years?

3:55 p.m.

Research Professor, School of Marine Sciences, University of Maine, As an Individual

Dr. Richard Wahle

It's sort of a tale of two cities in that the southern part of the species range, southern New England and the mid-Atlantic states, has suffered severely from mass mortalities related to extreme temperatures. Long Island Sound is an example. Shell disease has become very prevalent, to the order of 30% to 40% prevalence levels south of Cape Cod.

Once you move into the Gulf of Maine, it's a completely different story. These same warming-related events they are seeing in the south are positively affecting the cooler areas of species' range. When you move up into the eastern Gulf of Maine-Bay of Fundy area, which has historically been on the cold side of the lobster comfort zone, if you will, it has in the past 10 to 20 years surged in abundance. That fishery has now elevated its productivity to its current status. For the United States, that is the most valuable fishery in the nation right now, and I know the Canadian side of the eastern Gulf of Maine and into the Gulf of St. Lawrence is now contributing to your nation's most valuable fishery.

Does that sum it up?

4 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

I think so. If you were to reiterate the top two or three impacts—you kind of hinted at that—to the fishery, what would they be?

4 p.m.

Research Professor, School of Marine Sciences, University of Maine, As an Individual

Dr. Richard Wahle

I would say the top two impacts that have affected the productivity are warming climate, warming oceans, and the depletion of groundfish.

4 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

What would be your number one recommendation to this committee if we were looking at the Canadian Atlantic lobster and snow crab fishery?

4 p.m.

Research Professor, School of Marine Sciences, University of Maine, As an Individual

Dr. Richard Wahle

I will just add a little continuation to your previous question if I'm permitted. I didn't really address the crab part of the story. If I'm running short on time, I'll answer your other question.

4 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

No, you're good.

4 p.m.

Research Professor, School of Marine Sciences, University of Maine, As an Individual

Dr. Richard Wahle

We don't have snow crab really as a fishery in New England, but to answer your question as to what recommendations I would make, I would say at all costs protect the broodstock. If there's a simple answer to this question, it's protect the broodstock.

4 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lansbergen, you gave a number of recommendations to the committee. That is very helpful, thank you. I'd like to ask you a couple of questions,

I think you've given three recommendations. If I could just summarize them, increase research in climate adaptation is probably a pretty standard one. That's what we've got to do in changing ocean climates. We're looking at our U.S. counterpart and seeing that's a huge impact. A “tale of two cities” was how that was described.

Next is adapting to those scenarios. That's asking the department to look at how they are adapting.

Finally, you gave a recommendation about the minister coming and talking to the committee in 2020, with a new government, new Parliament.

Is there anything else that you could recommend or add to what you've provided in recommendations that the committee should include in the study?

4 p.m.

President, Fisheries Council of Canada

Paul Lansbergen

I think I could have perhaps gone a little bit deeper in terms of recommendations on those three themes, but with the extent of this study, I didn't know if you would necessarily have time to fully consider some deeper recommendations.

In terms of the science, and how much more science is needed within a certain time frame, you could certainly look at that more specifically in terms of how many resources DFO is putting in to understand climate impacts and the adaptation scenarios and options that we have for the years and decades ahead of us. You could look at how quickly they need to do that work.

Then there's having the minister come and discuss that with the committee. Given that we do have an election later this year, is next year too soon? That's for you to decide, but I think having him or her come and talk is a good thing.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

What are your biggest concerns for the lobster and snow crab fisheries, or your organization's biggest concerns, aside from your recommendations?

4:05 p.m.

President, Fisheries Council of Canada

Paul Lansbergen

The immediate outlook for those two species in particular is still relatively positive, so I don't have an immediate concern. There are other species that I think will face more negative climate impacts sooner, and we need to be concerned about them.

I'm an economist by training, so my depth of knowledge on the climate is pretty thin, but from reading parts of that book, I think some trends off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador, and even Nunavut, are going to be quite different from, say, those in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, the Bay of Fundy and the Scotian Shelf. They are also going to be different from those on the west coast.

We need to look at all of our coastlines, and the different regions along our coastlines, to figure out the impacts on different species, and how that is going to interact, from one species to the next.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly. Your time is up.

We will now go back to the government side with Mr. Rogers, for seven minutes or less, please.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to our guests.

Mr. Chair, before I get into the questioning, I would like to introduce a motion that is very relevant to this topic of snow crab and lobster, if that's appropriate.

The motion is very simple. It says:

That the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans undertake a study on the use of the Precautionary Approach and limit of reference points to determine future management of fish stocks and the economic and environmental impact of this approach.

I have copies available. If it's appropriate, I'd like to have the motion distributed to the committee.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Mr. Calkins.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

Mr. Chair, normally any motion that wouldn't require 48 hours' notice must be germane and relevant to the study that is already going on.

May 1st, 2019 / 4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL

This is totally relevant to the study.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

The motion being proposed by Mr. Rogers is for a separate and independent study that I do not see has a direct relationship to, nor is a subset of, the current study. I think that given the normal, friendly discourse at this committee, there shouldn't be a problem in giving the committee 48 hours' notice. It does not sound like the kind of motion we would object to, but I don't think it follows the rules of the committee.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Mr. Rogers.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL

I think it is very relevant to the topic we are discussing today. I want to focus on the management practices that DFO is planning to implement in our jurisdiction, when it comes to crab stocks, fish stocks and any other kinds of stocks.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Mr. Doherty.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

It is quite interesting that our friend across the way all of a sudden has a full head of steam, as we discussed the precautionary principle at length through Bill C-55, the Fisheries Act review, as well as through other studies that have come before this committee.

Mr. Chair, I would offer, similar to what my colleague Mr. Calkins mentioned, that this is something that can be discussed in committee business, which we have scheduled after this. Witnesses are before us right now. One has travelled a long distance, and one is online. We are taking up their time.

In fairness to all members of committee, this is something that should be taken up and given due course after this session is done.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald

Do you have something else to add, Mr. Rogers?

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Churence Rogers Liberal Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL

Mr. Chair, I think this motion is very relevant to what we are discussing here, particularly as to the management practices related to crab stocks, lobster and other species. I want to focus on those particular management practices. That's why I thought it would be fair to put them into a motion that we could discuss.