Yes, I agree.
Evidence of meeting #149 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was survival.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #149 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was survival.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Director, Steelhead Society of BC
The studies that have been done on pound nets—and there's an experimental pound net in the Columbia River in Washington state right now that has been operating for a number of years. The mortality was less than 5% in the experiments where they tagged the fish. They have the ability to absolutely not handle fish they don't want, because they can look down in the net and see what species they are. They're not tagging them as part of an experiment. They can just let them go without touching them. There's absolutely no harm to the fish and we could have potentially several mortalities. I don't think you can get that with a fish wheel—
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
5:45 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
Okay. I just wanted to verify that.
I want to go back to this whole notion of the COSEWIC listing of Oncorhynchus mykiss. As a species, Oncorhynchus mykiss is ubiquitous throughout British Columbia. It's in virtually every lake. It's in virtually every river system. They're in the coastal waters. They're in the island waters. I'm wondering, if a COSEWIC listing were actually applied at the species level for Oncorhynchus mykiss, how any department, provincially or federally, would be able to implement a fisheries program for those particular populations, which might be in lakes that aren't suffering the same fate. There is no way to differentiate.
I have heard no testimony to the fact that we cannot guarantee any type of genetic differentiation as to which versions of Oncorhynchus mykiss might go to salt water versus those that want to stay in fresh water. How would we implement fisheries policies when we lack knowledge of the habitat range and what a particular edition of Oncorhynchus mykiss might prefer to do? Am I missing something?
5:45 p.m.
Professor of Zoology, Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
I can answer that. It's a good question.
COSEWIC assessments and the SARA listings refer to what is known as wildlife species, which is not the same as the taxonomic species that you're referring to. The assessment and the listing would apply only to populations in the Chilcotin and Thompson rivers. It would not apply to Oncorhynchus mykiss in myriad lakes throughout British Columbia.
The Species at Risk Act allows us to assess things on a population-base level. I think that problem will go away, because people will be happy to accept fishing restrictions in this relatively small area of the range of the species, the taxonomic species.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
We're way over time.
Mr. Johns, you have three minutes or less, please.
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thanks.
Mr. Bech touched on the fact there hasn't been any sort of task force announced, in terms of the provincial and federal governments.
Ms. Reid, can you talk about discussions that are occurring right now?
5:50 p.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
A working group has been struck between Canada and B.C., as well as meetings between ministers about this exact issue. We have been working on a management plan together, which incorporates each of the elements we think are important to protect steelhead. That work is under way right now, actively being worked on by staff and overviewed by ministers.
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
What role are first nations playing in the development of that working group?
5:50 p.m.
Regional Director, Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
They haven't been involved to date.
5:50 p.m.
Regional Director General, Pacific Region, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
To date, it's just between DFO and B.C.
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
It sounds like a really important step.
Mr. Bech, do you want to touch on what you think should be the makeup of that task force, and how you would foresee that working?
5:50 p.m.
Director, Steelhead Society of BC
I was thinking about a task force just within the province. That's what's missing. There's a lack of technical resources.
Rob is pretty much at the bottom of the totem pole within that ministry. I don't think he supervises very many people, and I would hate to calculate how many levels of supervision there are above him. It would be really nice to get Rob some technical assistance on the ground, to help him with some of the work he's doing. That's where I'm coming from. We're not seeing those kinds of resources. We're hearing a lot of talking, but we're not seeing....
5:50 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Also, I'd have to agree that nobody even seems to know the number, in terms of what resources are being committed. It sounds like a really important step, for us to learn from you what the commitments are from all of the different ministries and departments, in terms of numbers and resources. Without identifying that, we don't have a clear picture.
Sorry, you had your hand up, Mr. Bison.
5:50 p.m.
Fisheries Stock Assessment Biologist, Fish, Wildlife and Ecosystems, Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development of British Columbia
I just want to say that despite challenges, the province has maintained a consistent monitoring presence for a long time. We have a pretty enviable information base to work with. It's not exactly the same as what you might get for a commercially harvested species like sockeye, but it has some strengths that the sockeye databases don't have.
To add to what Poul Bech was saying, it's really a concern over how the agencies are organized and coordinated. We're very fractured, and even within my agency, FLNRO, we're very fractured and we've undergone a transition toward regionalization. That kind of governing or administrative complexity has its challenges.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Johns.
That concludes our testimony and the questioning of our witnesses.
I want to say thank you to our witnesses and at the same time apologize for the late start due to votes, but that's part of what we do here. It's unavoidable at times.
We're going to suspend now for a minute just to get disconnected and go in camera for a couple of minutes of committee business and to get a couple of budgets approved.
[Proceedings continue in camera]